Hello to all on the forum.
Can someone give me some ideas or put me onto a site for some things to do to help with accuracy on a CMP Games legal 03A3. Thanks
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Hello to all on the forum.
Can someone give me some ideas or put me onto a site for some things to do to help with accuracy on a CMP Games legal 03A3. Thanks
this post comes from surplus rifle forum and may help and was posted by Bob S, a really good guy who knows his stuff about the 03.
The barrel must bear on the stock at the fore-end tip, called the "barrel bed" in the tech manual (it's called that for a reason). The term "float" is not used correctly in this tech manual, nor is it used correctly in the K31 manual, either. The term "float" in the tech manual is used to mean that the barrel is not "trapped", or clamped tightly between any two surfaces (like the stock and upper band, or stock and handguard).
On the 03A3, the stock should not touch the barrel between the receiver and the barrel bed of the stock, where it should bear evenly upward. This is not "free floating", it is pressure bedding. For service rifles, the "up" force to displace the barrel from the bed should be about 4 lbs. (see para 45.a(2)(d) in the tech manual). The barrel guard ring should be clearanced from the stock so you can wiggle it when the receiver is tightened into the stock: it should not be clamped tightly between the receiver ring and the stock.
For the M1903, the fixed base of the '03 rear sight may bear lightly in its mortice in the stock, as long as the pressure at the receiver flat (behind the recoil lug) bears hard, and the up pressure is present at the barrel bed.
For National Match rifles, the "up" force to displace the barrel from its bed was specified as 7-9 lbs. In 40+ years of building up Poor Man's Match rifles with 03's and 03A3's, I've found that even more pressure at the barrel bed ~on the order of 15 lbs~ is usually beneficial. In that time I've found only a handful of issue barrels that would group better if truly "free floated", and If I recall correctly, they were all pre-war barrels. The WW II contract barrels really need that damping.
It's really important that the barrel is not "trapped" at the forend: you do need to be able to push the barrel clear of the barrel bed with the rifle assembled. It can't be "clamped" by the upper band or the handguard tennon. There has to be visible clearance between the top of the barrel and these parts. It doesn't need to be a bunch; about .025" is OK. If you can't push the barrel up about that much, then relieveing some material from the upper band and/or handguard tennon with a Foredom tool (or Dremel) is indicated. It is usually counter-productive to remove wood from the barrel bed of the stock to get this clearance, as you lose the needed pressure on the barrel here.
In the days before "CMP rules", we used to remove the metal handguard clips so they wouldn't bear on the barrel, but that's a non-starter for "as-issued" rules.
For an 03A3, substitution of a milled trigger guard for the stamped one is beneficial; I don't know how CMP would feel about that. (I see photographs of rifles on the line at Perry with FLAGRANT violations of "as-issued" conditions, and nobody seems to get upset about it, though). Lacking a milled guard, I recommend getting a stamped guard with a "pad" welded in it if yours does not already have one ... it is little flat surface just aft of the forward screw hole that gives some real bedding surface so the side rails of the stamped guard don't just cut into the wood when the bedding screws are tightened. When we were poor undergraduate students in the 60's, we used a solid block of steel or even aluminum glued in to perform the same function. It makes a world of difference. Of course you can't glue a block in and pass "as-issed", but you can buy the as-issued stamped guards with the welded-in pad from Bill Ricca.
Some of this I learned in the School of Hard Knocks, some I got from Roy Dunlap. With one of my first 03A3's tuned as above (no glass bedding), but with a milled guard, "C" stock and Lyman 48 rear sight, I made Master in my first "serious" season (1973) after I got out of the Navy the first time, so it does work.
Resp'y,
Bob S.
_________________
USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067
see the link to the page here
Surplusrifleforum.com • View topic - accurizing springfield 1903A3
a short winded tip.
remove the rear stock tang bushing, trim 1/8 off the bushing, replace it in the stock.
tighten screws to 30 inch pounds.
will do more to improve your A3, then anything.
Assuming the bushings and the stocks are all exactly the same dimensions?
If I was going to trim the bushing what should I look for in the bedding to indicate enough is enough?
an 1903 only has one tang bushing, at the rear,
drive it out carefully, trim 1/8 inch of, and put it back in the stock.
when you remove the trigger guard, youll see it stick out just a tad,
it will let the rifle move in the stock, trimming it so you get good wood to reciever bite, will do more then any super secret over drawn deal.
DONT SHOOT YOUR RIFLE WITHOUT THE BUSHING, you will destroy the stock.
that is the only thing you can do to a 1903 for a match, bedding, barrel pressure adjustment ect, are not legal.
and yes, they are all the same..
iv worked on more 03,s then most, they all stick out about the same.
shot 2 weeks ago, off a bench, 100 yards, low number RIA,{1909} worn barrel,
original grasping grove stock. only modification done is the stock bushing.
ammo is my handloads,
loaded light with 165 grn, swift A frames.
im using this rifle for an iron sight Antelope hunt in Oct.
Surely one can do something to improve the pressure on the barrel at the fore end under the "careful assembly" statement in the rules?
I've got a new CMP "C" stock coming tomorrow so I'm really interested in what I can do.
This is my rifle for Garand/Springfield and High Power matches here along the front range.
I shoot an AR also but because it is so easy to score well with it just isn't as much fun. It really impresses the poodle shooters when I can get 10 off in 60 seconds.
Chuck do you ever make it to any of these matches?
this modification is for GI issue stocks only, good luck with the CMP stock,
they are Boyds,
Sarco sells a better stock, iv fitted several after market stocks, Boyds are the worst, Sarco is by far the best, they are Syle made stocks, Italian walnut.
you may get lucky and have a drop in fit..
with all the work load i have, and other hobbys i dont get to travel much to shoot, had a chance this year with a free ride.
id have a lot of upset customers, and a really PO,d Brittany.
id say shoot the rifle before you adjust anything..if it aint broke, dont fix it.
Supposedly CMP had a come to Jesus talk with Boyds about a year ago and the QC has improved tremendously. Everyone who has received one recently claims no fitting required. We'll see.
One thing for sure is the straight stock I have is not only beating me to death but it has a chunk missing from the left side of the fore end where the barrel puts pressure on it. The difference in POI from slung up to no sling is 4-6" at 200yds and inconsistent sling pressure seems to have a big affect also.
A new stock couldn't possibly hurt it. I hope!
FWIW I just read a thread on the M14 forums by Gus Fisher about repro 1903 stocks. According to the post the Sarco stocks are beyond bad and take many hours of fitting. The CMP stocks while not perfect are much better.
As I said, we will see.
If anyone is interested I'll post my experiences with the Boyd's/CMP stock.
i fitted 4 Boyds stocks last winter, no holes, buttplate wouldnt fit right, bands wouldnt fit over the stock and handguard ,action and trigger guard were off enough to leave a large gap, after they were fitted, and that was for 1903,s dont get me started on M1 stocks
contacted Boyds, and got a less then nice responce from them.
i have fitted 7 or 8 Sarco stocks, all had holes drilled, little or no fit time.
action to trigger guards dead on, bands fit tight, but they did fit, and came with new cross bolts, installed easy.
had one that was warped a bit, called Sarco, they said send it back, they would send me a replacement.
unless Boyds have changed the way the make the stocks, hired people with a good additude for customer service and have thinned them down a bit, id say go with the Italian wood.
too bad Boyds doesnt give a hoot.
they made stocks for Ruger as well, and the fit on them was poor as well,
i received a 77 Mark 2 to glass bed and install a brake, rifle was so poorly fitted in the stock, it pushed the barrel 1/16 to the right with chanel pressure.
i called Ruger , they sent another rifle, it had stock fitting issues as well, so it went back.
i finally talked to the guy that grabs the rifles for shipping, and had him pick one that was fitted right.
finally got it done. nice looking laminate stocks, to bad the quality in fit isnt as good as the finish.
the Ruger issue was 4 years ago, i dont think they use Boyds wood anymore, like Remington they use another supplier, dont remember the name off the top of my head, said suppier sells seconds on Ebay.
maybe Gus has had better luck they me, but i can tell you, i have heard more negative then positive with Boyds wood.
Got the stock today and it did require some work but only on the hand guard.
The steps or shoulders if you will didn't line up with the ones on the stock. Took the bulk off with a dremel and cleaned the cuts up with a file. Everything else was perfect. Got the first coat of tung oil on tonight. Receiver and trigger guard seem to fit well, handguard mounting ring is slightly loose and the barrel fore end bed seems good. Even pressure anyway. Might be a little tight but according to BobS if they're a little tight it's better.
Shooting in a match on Saturday so I'll take it to the range on Friday afternoon and see how it shoots.
make sure you install the rear tang bushing, youll be unhappy if you dont
It came with one installed. Recoil bolts were also installed. The only thing different is the lack of handguard clips. Not sure what those were for anyway.
they keep the handguard from splitting under recoil. they have to be installed.
Got the rifle to the range Friday for load develpment. Elevation zero changed from the 300yd mark to the 150yd mark. Interesting.
In the process of working up loads I found a combination with the Radway Green 4895 that gave me an honest 2.25" group at 220yds. Sweet!! Off bags of course.
Shot an 80rnd High Power match today and because the poodle guns stayed away I was the Match Winner.
The rifle seems to be a bit more consistent now. No cracks/splits and nothing has loosened or moved. The pistol grip is more comfortable to shoot than the straight stock. You still can't wrap your thumb around the top during the prone and sitting stage or you will get the Sgt. York thumb in the cheek.
I just built up 2 rifles, a 1903 and an A3 using CMP stocks. All inletting is well done and square with the long axis. Both barrelled actions fit just a hair tight (those are the ones you rebarrelled for me, Chuck). The 1903 handguard came with clips. Recoil bolts and bushings installed. One has a bedding problem. The barrel is about 1/16 off the forend and clamps up tight when the handguard is installed. I'll have to work on it some. Other then that, I'm happy with the stocks.