Enfield No V ( Not for the faint Hearted)

I bought it last week, it was a £50 enfield sporter i hadnt seen it, but i wanted the action for my delisle project, i received it to today but when opening the parcel a slight grin apeared on the face as i was expecting a No 1 mk 111 sporter but what i had bought was a very badly sporterised No V.
All metal is original plus woodwork (but its sporterised!!!) the barrel i would say has been relaced at some point, it has had a few thou taken off the top front of the reciever and barrel, looks like something was under there? also loading bridge has had a file accross it ?
This will be a Restoration and not a Delisle, serial numbers match (action ,bolt) serial 5009, stamped Enfield ShtLE V, the action has the cutway for the mag cut off which i thought was only on the later Mk V1 (if only i had skenertons books, think its time)
Hardest parts to find i think will be the rear sight and hand gaurd as this was one long piece (all donations accepted) if anyone can shed any light on it plus any pics of the extra barrel band.
Days like today dont come anybetter, not just this, i bought a P17 .30 06 yesterday which the seller believes was never issued and this morning was up at 0630 to phone a dealer (he didnt open til 0900) about a springfield .30 06 which i,ve been looking for a long time it came from a collecter so, i bought it. (They say things come in three,s)
Only downside at present is i,m now skint!! (Have to sell my AR15 aswell as my Accuarcy AE ). (the accuracy was going anyway but didnt plan on the AR)

Tears and joy aside please remember this was someones Pride and joy as can be seen with the hand crafted sights and all over varnish finish, enjoy pics and any info appreciated.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

There were two variants of the Mk5. The conversion from the Mk3 which was scheduled to cost 18 shillings to convert. Then there was the 'new build' Mk5 that was scheduled to cost 21 or 22 shillings (£1/2/-) to convert. That's why some of the Mk5 rifles show signs of their previous Mk3 or 3* ancestry, especially in the stocks fore-end and body side markings.

Looks like a rear sight from a.. P14 maybe?

At the very least the adapter bracket could have been blued and its corners rounded off. Geez. :)

Lou

Nice score! You'll be building good karma with the enfield gods, they'll send more when you rescue a lost soul like this one.

Try EFD in the UK, they have remade sights, bands and wood for your rifle. These rear sights used to show on flee bay but not for some time now.

Folks, what's the type of rear sight that would have been on that one?

Lou

The original rear sight looks a bit like that one you have but wider.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RJW NZ

Nice score! You'll be building good karma with the enfield gods, they'll send more when you rescue a lost soul like this one.

Try EFD in the UK, they have remade sights, bands and wood for your rifle. These rear sights used to show on flee bay but not for some time now.

---

I'll second the recommendation for EFD. But be prepared for a case of "sticker shock". They make a full range of MkV parts, but that's the rub, they MAKE them. So, while you do get top quality, you also have to fork out for a certain amount of machine time. Still, money well spent.

You're right Harrymac. The notes from the time mention a large backlog of rifles awaiting backsights due to the complexities of production and '....this matter will have to be expedited in the shortest time'. I don't think that they ever speeded up the production of Mk5 backsights and as the Mk6/No4 was waiting in the wings in any case, the Mk5's went back into store, incomplete. And this is the reason why there are thousands of backsight-less Mk5's around. That WAS the case until EFD came to the rescue with their highly motivated 's--t or get off the pot' attitude.

As we say in England...... It's like shopping at Marks and Spencer. You get JUST what you pay for!

Hmm, Peter, would this possibly mean that a rear-sightless MkV would be a correct restoration?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by louthepou

Hmm, Peter, would this possibly mean that a rear-sightless MkV would be a correct restoration?

---

and if so, what sight was put in that place? 300/600?

Nitpicking again, but it is a Rifle No. 1, Mk V. There is no Number "V", but a Rifle No. 5 is the "Jungle Carbine."

Jim

I Spoke with with Geoff from EDF today (Thanks to RJW NZ) i did speak to Jim from EDF last week regarding where i could find a rear sight for my re barrel on My Portuguese Mauser (please see thread in mauser section or thread on milsurps restoration)
Geoff gave me lot of information which i appreciated,
I discussed the options for the stock, he told me that the first few they did were No 1 Mk111 stocks (which i do have a nice example) only probs was the cut out for the rear sight protector, in which they used near matching pieces of walnut to fill in the cut outs but said due to the value of the mkV and the cut out repair still visible they decided to get the new stocks made. i will try to fill my existing stock, the rear sight i will try to reproduce myself this will take time, (if i win the lotto i will give EFD a ring), i need some pics to work to, there are a few in the Milsurp libary but any others please contact me, the extra barrel band i can do, which leaves the handgaurds for £65 which i think is a fair price.
I stripped it down last night and before i remove the barrel (this is not standard No1 Mk111 ?) , will log the stamps and numbers etc and post a thread on each part of the project will post in the restoration section in milsurp. if there is anywhere in the world i stood a chance of finding a few bits, it would be the war and peace show next month, but i will be in the USA during this time, for anyone who has never been to the show, GO you will need two days to walk around all the trade stands even then you will of missed some. Thanks to all who have helped so far and also sorry for my mistake of calling it a No5 instead of Mk5 have a lot going on at present Studying for exams, plus My Springfield arrived today,very happy a nice example.

Keep us posted Bigduke, and thanks for thinking about posting about the steps and progress in the Restoration section :)

Lou

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by louthepou

Hmm, Peter, would this possibly mean that a rear-sightless MkV would be a correct restoration?

---

Sightless would not be correct for an as issued rifle. I believe Peter's refering to any rifles which were still at the factory. Rifles leaving the factory for issue would have been complete. I immagine that any useable parts that were on hand by the time war broke out were utilised in MkIII* production where possible.
Apparently the rifles rebuilt by EFD were all just bare recievers when Jim and Geoff aquired them. I'm sure Jim will jump in and correct if I'm off track.
Do any forum users know if the MkV saw any use at all during WWII, whether by the home guard or other rear line units?

According to Edwards and his photographic evidence, some MkV's were used for prototype conversions to No5's during WW2. Apparently India received many MkV's once the UK was finished with their evaluatuions of them.

Quote:

---

I stripped it down last night and before i remove the barrel (this is not standard No1 Mk111 ?)

---

I'd been wondering about the barrel profiles of various Mks of these transitional rifles and trials rifles.

I'd been told that there was no difference in the MkIII barrels and those for rifles like yours and no difference between the No.4 barrels and the No.1 Mk VI barrels.

A friend has a British No.4 that has a barrel that is far slimmer than any other No.4 barrel I've seen.
It doesn't appear to be a Mk VI action but I'd wondered if the barrel might have come from a trials rifle.

Pics of barrel, i have only compared it with my SMLE No1 Mk111 and old No 4 barrels, its the step down i,ve never seen ? Also the last pics show a P on the action and P on the top of the stock. Will replace the barrel as its been cut down may replace with a heavy barrel (anyone got one)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

So there is a considerable difference between the barrels of the Mark V and those of the Mk III.
I'd figured there should be, especially since there would be no base afixed to the barrel and no need for a cross pin or screw hole.

Regardless of whether the rifle was restorable or not its a very interesting piece.

I hope you can find all the parts you need.

All i can add is
1 The barrel is not original
2 Not a SMLE barrel
3 Not a No4 barrel

There appears to be a lot of material removed from the top of the receiver ring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alfred

So there is a considerable difference between the barrels of the Mark V and those of the Mk III.
I'd figured there should be, especially since there would be no base afixed to the barrel and no need for a cross pin or screw hole.

Regardless of whether the rifle was restorable or not its a very interesting piece.

I hope you can find all the parts you need.

---

Forgot to upload these pics as you can see there are holes, plus an outline for a sightbase also have pic of reciever and barrel, you can see something has been there, as there are 2 holes one on the barrel and the other at rear of reciver which may not be that visiblein the pic, i would say have been filled in, probably with a stud and then filed flush , also at the very end a faint arrow so barrel was a military barrel, there is also an E with a circle around? Main concern is getting the barrel off as i think this will be a complete Bas***d to move but before i do i want to make sure i am not going to destroy a one off prototype, as i intend to use a parting off tool to take some meat off the barrel as close to the receiver as possible just to relieve some pressure on the threads and make life easy to remove the barrel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5thBatt

All i can add is
1 The barrel is not original
2 Not a SMLE barrel
3 Not a No4 barrel

There appears to be a lot of material removed from the top of the receiver ring.

---

It looks a lot worse than it is, its 12mm accross, after the barrel is removed first job will be to re blue the bare metal, will be rusting using salts.

The barrel profile you show reminds me of that used on the Martini-Enfield .303 conversions. I have one around here somewhere and will see if I can find it.

The barrel appears to have the knox form of the pre SMLE Lee Enfields and the top of the action has been filed off - also the backsights were secured by two screws and solder.
The Lee Enfields up until the No4 breeched up against the base of the barrel not the shoulder so parting back the shoulder will probably not help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowdy

The barrel appears to have the knox form of the pre SMLE Lee Enfields and the top of the action has been filed off - also the backsights were secured by two screws and solder.
The Lee Enfields up until the No4 breeched up against the base of the barrel not the shoulder so parting back the shoulder will probably not help.

---

The top of the action i would say has not been filed off, at the start of the original radius for the flat is some stamp so it has been filed down a few thou, plus being a No 1 Mk V action why put an old pre SMLE barrel on? i can only think that the original was removed long time ago maybe it was a heavy barrel like the Lithgow made rifles had, and this was put on to replace the original and the raised part of the barrel was lowered to match the action ?

I would say the barrel is from a commercial MLE or CLLE.
I am having difficulty in posting pictures.

Thanks rowdy thats the same barrel, think its safe to say that the original has long gone, will start on in it in a few days, do you know anywhere down under you can get a lithgow heavy barrel ? or a reproduction. am looking at all options for the new barrel:
1) i use a SMLE barrel, 2) Use a heavy barrel as with some Lithgow SMLE,S 3) buy the blank and do it myself

I was of the belief that the MkV used the standard SMLE barrel form and I can see no reference to a change in LES.

You're right Rowdy, it did use the standard barrel form according to our rifles at Warminster. In fact, the 18 shilling conversion project even retained the same barrel, less the backsight bed.

Thought it might be an idea to use a heavy barrel, while i,m at the start of the project, all those in favour of original or heavy let me know.

With a heavy bbl. you will have to mod. the fore stock. Not something I'd want to do w/ Mk V furniture, especially original. 'Course putting the effort into a H.B. increases your chances of finding the scarce bits just after you assemble it.

Finding the original woodwork will be like finding a needle in a haystack so going to use a SMLE forend and fill the sight protector cutouts, the hangaurds i will use EFD reproductions, so any modification here would not cause any tears, if i did find original wood it would be the SMLE barrel no questions asked. one thing i,ve got do is put my personnel mark on the rifle, if i did sell i dont want anyone trying to pass it of as an original. (there are are a lot of dealers out there just like used car salesmen)

I've recently acquired a 1924 MK V in a genuine Bubba configuration. The conventional throw away parts have been thrown away and the stock cut in correct fashion and sanded to resemble a cheap flintlock knockoff. The metal remains untouched and in very good condition and the numbers all match. The magazine well contained a Savage magazine serialized within 500 numbers of my Savage No 4 MK1*. Go figure. At any rate am off to the EFD website to get over any sticker shock before the wife gets home and sees the familiar look on my face. Advice would be appreciated.

If you buy all the parts you need individually, it will really hurt your wallet.
Nosecap is identical to a No1 MkIII. Wood will have to be "upgraded" No1 material anyway, so I would look for a de-act No1, or one with a shot-out/sewer pipe barrel, so no-one will cry if you cannibalize it for parts.

Patrick

Hope that you can get it all together without a bank loan!!!

I have some MKIII spares including a 1915 BSA barreled action with wood that I bought just for the wood to use on the MKV. Unfortunately the wood, receiver, barrrel, and windage sight all have matching numbers and the bore is pristine so now instead of spare parts, I have a new project. If someone had only warned me about Smelly fever. Oh well, it's only money and the winters here are long, cold and dark. I'm figuring roughly $350 US for the handguards, fore end, buttstock, and metal. I'll try and post pics when I get started. Thanks to all for the advice. Regards, Bob.