Are the dates on Krag cartouches based on a fiscal or calander year?
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Are the dates on Krag cartouches based on a fiscal or calander year?
I had thought the cartouche dates were based on calendar year, but we just had some discussion about this over the past few days and now I'm not so sure...
A good place to ask that question would be on the Krag Collector's Forum: Official KCA Forum - Krag Forum
There are some of the most knowledgeable of collecors there, but there will probably be some debate there too.
Fiscal
I have to disagree with Michael and go with calendar year. I've included a photo of a rifle that would have been made in April of 1895. That would have been fiscal year 1894, but the cartouche is 1895. Also, if the cartouches were done by fiscal year, the first 911 of the model 92s, made from Jan - June 1894 would have fiscal year 1893 cartouches.
I'm sure others can chime in on this and confirm.
Unfortunately, my rifle is probably not a good datepoint to use. According to the Poyer S/N tables, mine was made made in August 1899 and has an 1899 cartouche. Technically, August would have been the beginning of the 1900 fiscal year. However, those S/N tables are not absolute and I wonder how rigorous Springfield was in sticking with the fiscal year calendar.
I'm beginning to think that when it comes to Krags, there are few absolutes! The one exception is, "I like mine!" Probably the most accurate rifle I have, even beating the glass bedded Garand.
Observations and thoughts:
1. Springfields 1898 fiscal year started July 1, 1897 and ended June 30, 1898
2. MODEL 1898 Krag production started in June of CY 1898 at approx. s/n 108-109,000
(depending on who’s numbers you use)
3. The first MODEL 1898 Krag was completed CY July 8, 1898, which would be Springfields FY 1899.
(if this is correct and the cartouche dates are fiscal year there would be NO 1898 Krags with 1898 cartouche dates)
4. There are lots of MODEL 1898 Krags with 1898 cartouche dates.
5. There are MODEL 1896 Krags with 1898 cartouche dates.
Unless I’m way of base with the above observations. Cartouche dates used would be Calendar year.
Think I’ll go get something refreshing to drink now, my head hurts after this!
Chuck
IIRC we went through this a while back and the conclusion was the the cartouche dates were the calendar year. FWIW, I doubt the record keeping for bookkeeping purposes went by the cartouche date or that the two had any relation to one another. The government fiscal year (July 1-June 30) was developed to allow the new Congress time to appropriate funds to run the government. That was a time when Congress collectively had a little bit of common sense; today, the appropriations cycle can take a lot longer, with the government shut down or running on continuing resolutions while Congress debates whether the fruit fly is an endangered species.
Jim
I am convinced that the stock dates are calender year and the serial numbers are fiscal year. I have an 1896 with a late 1897 serial number, but the stock date is 1898...the gun looks completely original and is in high condition, though the cartouche has been sanded lightly. I also have an 1899 carbine that is the same story...late year production, but the stock date is 1900.Quote:
Originally Posted by cquickel
Um, I'm sorry but that isn't parsing for me. Serial numbers aren't "calender" or "fiscal" year; they're just a stream from 1 to the end. How those line up with the FY or CY is purely coincidental. Some researchers are attempting to "pin" serial ranges to years but it's an art more than a science and the end result will never be correct. It won't be correct as the guns weren't finished in serial number order. The "range" of "out of order" could get quite extensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kragnut
So serials aren't pinned to years in any meaningful way.
Cheers.