Which factory made this No. 4 Mk I?

I have a well used No. 4 Mk I that I can't clearly identify which factory/armory made it. I'm hoping someone on the forum can help.


The No. 4 Mk I marking on the action body is very faint, as is the serial number. The date - 1943, is the strongest marking, and as best I can make out the serial number is 7x12 or 7x42, with no prefix being present. The second number is most likely an 8, but could posssbly be a 5 - it is jsut too faint to be sure. There is a stamped letter "B" above the date on the buttsocket and on the barrel. On the action body next to the safety catch slot, there is a stamped letter "M". Note that the "M is covered by the safety locking bolt when the safety is in the off position. There are no conversion or FTR makrings that I can find, but there are numerous British accpetance and proof marks.

Pictures are attached.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim :sos:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02349-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02350-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02351-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02352-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02353-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02354-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02355-1.jpg

Most probably BSA.

Yup, I'd also say based on the marking it's a BSA. The position of the 1943 and the 'No.4 mark 1" look typical as does the hole in the bolt handle.

C.I.A. is Century International Arms. It's likely one of their 'assembled out of parts bins' rifles. Check the headspace before you shoot it. Century used no QC of any kind. Not even checking the headspace to ensure the rifle is safe to shoot.
Once you've checked the headspace, slug the barrel(hammer a cast .30 cal bullet or suitably sized lead fishing sinker through the barrel with a 1.4" brass rod and a plastic mallet and measure with a micrometer). Barrels can measure between .311" and .315" and still be considered ok. Over .315", the barrel is shot out.

and portions of the safety are missing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mk VII

and portions of the safety are missing.

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Well spotted. In fact it is the important 'portion'.

Beerhunter and Mk.VII

I think jbrid just removed the safety for some photos so the ‘M’ underneath it could been seen. The safety is present in other shots.

45B20

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 45B20

Beerhunter and Mk.VII

I think jbrid just removed the safety for some photos so the ‘M’ underneath it could been seen. The safety is present in other shots.

45B20

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The part that is missing is not the operating lever of the safety, it is the safety catch. (The part that engages with the the side of the bolt. It is clearly missing from the two photos in which it would be visible. It should protrude from the hole to the right of the letter M and is obviously not there. (It would not need to be removed in order to photograph the letter M.)

"The part that is missing is not the operating lever of the safety, it is the safety catch..."

It's a wartime No4, the safety catch is most likely missing because the locking bolt is a Mk2 and was never threaded for the catch.
-----krinko

It is there in one of the other photographs.

Chuck

Chuch -- sorry, the one picture is misleading -- the safety catch is missing. I apologize -- I should have mentioned this when I posted the pictures. I can see that the locking bolt is threaded for the safety catch, so I'm going to order a safety catch from Numrich to correct this problem before I take this one to the range.

I've checked the headspace while I had the bolt disassembled -- it's ok. While were on that subject, the headspace gage I have was made by Forester and is clearly marked "Field" ".303" and ".070". From the reading I've done, I would have expected the field gage to be 0.074 and the no go gage 0.070. Which is correct for the field gage - .070 or .074?

One other question - what is the meaning of the "B" and the "M" marks? Based on Stratton's book, I was guessing that the "M" was for Maltby, but was puzzled by the location. I haven't found the "B" listed in Stratton's book.

Thanks to all for the help.

Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbrid

Chuch -- sorry, the one picture is misleading -- the safety catch is missing. I apologize -- I should have mentioned this when I posted the pictures. I can see that the locking bolt is threaded for the safety catch, so I'm going to order a safety catch from Numrich to correct this problem before I take this one to the range.

I've checked the headspace while I had the bolt disassembled -- it's ok. While were on that subject, the headspace gage I have was made by Forester and is clearly marked "Field" ".303" and ".070". From the reading I've done, I would have expected the field gage to be 0.074 and the no go gage 0.070. Which is correct for the field gage - .070 or .074?

One other question - what is the meaning of the "B" and the "M" marks? Based on Stratton's book, I was guessing that the "M" was for Maltby, but was puzzled by the location. I haven't found the "B" listed in Stratton's book.

Thanks to all for the help.

Jim

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It looks as if you've got SAMMI gagues instead of the Military ones.

Many a 'good gun' has been consigned to the scrap heap as a headspace failure when using the commercial headspace gagues which are 'undersize' to cover their a***'s in this litigious day & age.

The 'correct' headspacing for an LE is 0.064" - 0.074"

Thanks for your help.

Jim

Going back to the original question, it's definitely a BSA Shirley. BSA initially marked their rifles with a 'B' (1941 till some point in 1943), then they commenced using the foctory coding in 1943, but for a short while only used M47, before adopting the full M47/C from later in 1943 till the end of production.

ATB

Cuss ugly markings from Century! That is enough to make a guy get out the emery cloth and a buffer.

I've done it a few times myself Maple leaf!

ATB