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I'm looking at buying a 1895 Chileno Mauser that is described as being in "7.62". I know that there are conversions of the 95 Chileno Mauser to 7.62 x 51, but I always thought that the rear receiver bridge or the receiver ring had some notation of the new caliber--".30", "7.62", "Nato" or some such.
I can find no notation or indication of the conversion anywhere in the pics.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2Chileno-1.jpg
I bought two of them that were rechambered in 7.62 NATO. Not long after, I noticed that one had a crack in the rear bridge. I returned them both. IIRC, they are the 93 model, small ring Mauser. They may not be safe for the pressure of a 7.62 NATO or .308 round.
This one appears to be the 1895, because it has the auxiliary "locking lug" that the bolt handle fits into.
Was there any notation of the 7.62 rechambering on your rifles?
I bought a 7.62mm M98 Mauser (Chile Mauser?)at a show a few years back. It has a 2 groove barrel and certainly appears to be a USGI 2 groove 03A3 barrel. Chile went through a huge re-barrel program some years back and I have seen many Mausers rebarreled into 7.62mm. Some were very nicley done and are certainly worth the money. Not too sure about the M1895's, however. I also think at least some have 7.62mm sleeves, as they were not actually rebarreled, but bored out into 7.62mm. These must be avoided.
Some of those Chilean Mausers were rebarreled to 7.62x51 NATO, but many were not. Instead, the chamber was drilled out and a chamber insert installed. Then the barrel was re-bored and re-rifled to .300/.308" caliber.
Here is a cross-section of a barrel converted that way. Safe? I believe so, at least for limited use, but hardly ideal. Still, it does preserve the original barrel and matching numbers.
Jim
Thanks.
I'm wondering if there is some marking made at the time of the rechambering, such as "7.62", ".30" or "Nato".
If so, then I'm wondering if the absence of such a mark may indicate that the auction house is wrong about the caliber.
It may take awhile, but that type of sleeve will work out. Press-fit with no Locktite, it's backing out, for sure. By the way, the 95 Mauser was not designed for that type of pressure generated by the 7.62mm cartridge. The receiver will stretch. But the sleeve will be out by then. The 7mm version is a keeper, no doubt about it.
I don't know if the chamber insert was put in with Loctite (or other glue) or not. The one's I have seen had nice barrels on the outside, so I am pretty sure no solder was used.
I am not sure the insert would back out, since ultimately the bolt holds it in. But I suspect that if a wide enough gap opened in front of it, and it is not in there solid, it would act like the floating chamber in a .22/.45 conversion unit and back up hard enough to damage the receiver.
I was told that the conversion was done by the Chileans, with the intent of having a war reserve of rifles firing the NATO cartridge. That may be true, and a "quick and dirty" conversion like that could be useful in an emergency even if it was not very durable. (The U.S. issued low-number M1903's in WWII, knowing they could be dangerous, but a man with a gun that might have a problem is better than a man with no gun at all.)
Jim
Here are the rest of the pics from the auction site. Any opinions on what the lack of any markings indicating rechambering means, if anything?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Chileno1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Chileno2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Chileno3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Chileno4-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Chileno5-1.jpg
7mm Mauser? A real keeper. Looks unissued. Nice.
Well, that is the question.
The auction description says that it is 7.62, but I see none of the usual "7.62", ".30" or "nato" stamping anywhere in the picture.
That is why I'm doubtful about the re-chambering
I suspect it is a 7mm. A keeper, no doubt about it.
I have an 1895 Clileno Mauser in7.62 Nato. It is marked 7'62 withan N below the caliber at the bolt handle end of the receiver. i do not know if it has been bored out to nato caliber or rebarreled. The bolt and receiver arematching #'s and the barrel finish matches the receiver. I have shot and it shot well.
Peter
I bought an M95 Chileno Mauser at an auction in March 08 thinking it was a 7mm. After I got it home I found it would not chamber a 7x57mm round. Then I noticed the 7.62 over N on the rear receiver bridge. It chambers 308/7.62x51.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...collage1-1.jpg
I have shot it with no ill effect but I don't plan on shooting it a lot.
Recently, I/O in North carolina has been advertising them in Shotgun News for, I believe, $249.00, offering a choice of either 7mm or 7.62x51.
FWIW
I have read that military ammo (7.62 X 51 M/M) is loaded to lower pressures than standard factory ammo, designated .308 Winchester. So stick to military?
Well, I didn't end up bidding on the Chileno Mauser. It sold for $250, plus an 18% buyers premium, so call it $295 plus shipping.
It sure was pretty...
Sorry to resurrect an ancient thread, but.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
If you looked at the photo of the sectioned chamber, which is my photo btw, you can see solder on the top and bottom. Flame cutting has blown out the solder around the throat.
1895 Chilean Mauser
conversion from 7x57mm to 7.62x51 NATO
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html
FYI - the nice Chilean Calfed asked about was new/unissued/in-the-factory-crate when it was imported pre-68. Today its about a $650-800+ rifle. I know of at least one ship that docked in San Pedro unloading 10 rifle crates, new, beautiful rifles in about 1965. Among them were new OVS Boer 1893 Mausers. OVS 8776 was one of them. I owned it in 1968-74. Unfired.
Dutch
The sleeve isn't cross pinned? Just soldered? Now THAT is a bit scary. Lots more frontal area for high pressure gasses to work against, so when the solder has had enough....!
No, not cross-pinned. It there was anything else it would be noticeable by inspecting the barrel. There's no pins.
When I sectioned that barrel I hadn't noticed the ring of silver around the end of the barrel as it was dingy and dirty. When I got the barrel cut in two on the mill I was very surprised at what I saw.
Those pictures have been heavily viewed on that webpage.
Dutchman
So about 1.75 times the area to work against AND no cartridge case wall "grip" for moderating backthrust. Not good!
ETA And all w/ a cartridge that operates at significantly higher pressure than the original!
The 1895 Mauser will slowly stretch with a hot 7.62mm round. I had a good friend who rebarreled his 1895 into .257 Roberts. It slowly stretched and he junked the receiver and kept the barrel. I doubt there is any blow-up potential, but receiver stretch will happen.
Just took a Steyr 1912 with 29' bbl to the range. My bud shot a -2in group with it. Better than I can do, with these glasses anyway.
I was always sorry that I didn't bid on this rifle. I felt at the time that with the description of "7.62" caliber, there was too much uncertainty as to what it was, even without the ".30", "7.62" or "NATO" nomenclature on the rear bridge.
I still would like to get a 7.62 conversion of the 1912 Steyr. I've heard that the "1912 Nato" long barreled rifles are converted using a bored barrel and a chamber insert ala the 1895 conversions. I've also heard that the "1912 Nato" short barreled rifles are converted using a USGI 30.06 barrel with the chamber shortened and rechambered to 7.62x51.
Anyone able to shed any light on these matters? How satisfactory is the 1912 7.62x51 Nato conversions?
Thanks, Steve
My short rifle has an USGI 2 groove barrel. My 1912 Steyr has a new barrel, I think. No Steyr external stampings on the barrel and I can not see a sleeve. The long barrel Steyr is a very nice shooter.
I have a Steyr Model 1912-61 short rifle. I recently tore it down to the barreled action. The barrel is most certainly a USGI 2 groove 03A3 barrel. The outside is rough and ugly. The juncture of the barrel shoulder and receiver has an eccentric fit in that you can see light through one side but not the other. This is due to the barrel seating on the torque shoulder inside and not the barrel against the front of the receiver as on a small ring action. In other words, it was not a skillfully done conversion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calfed
The bore of mine is excellent. The decision about rebarreling is awaiting my son-in-law (former USMC sniper school graduate) and some test firing while its in a Fajen synthetic stock. If it proves to be inaccurate, and maybe even if it doesn't, the action is going to be rebarreled with an Adams & Bennett .308 F34 or F54 barrel.
This particular Steyr 1912 was purchased from Century Arms as a u-fix-em for $18 but no bolt or cleaning rod. Complete otherwise. Has lots of character on the wood but nice action. I stuck a Brazilian m/1908 bolt in it and test fired it and it lengthened cases only .002" with no apparent swelling anywhere else.
Dutch
I have the 1912 long rifle. It has an excellent bore and the chamber isn't sleeved. It is a Century import and minus the cleaning rod. I don't know if it ever had one after conversion. It isn't uncommon for nations making conversions to elimiater the rods.
As mentioned above, they are well used and in Good only condition on the exterior. They are all mixmasters from what I can tell but are mechanically excellent. Mine has .003 headspace on IVI surplus cases.
Dtchman is right about the barrel fitting. My 2 groove RA barrel is done the same way. I have been told this is due to the '03 barrel not having enough metal in the shoulder. They do not fit 98 Mausers properly, as the barrel should bear both internally and externally on the receiver. The USGI barrel CAN'T do it. This is the reason why so few Mausers are found with 2 groove barrels. Many gunsmiths will not mount them. As best as I can figure, my Chilean Mauser has its 2 groove barrel bearing internally, this is the best solution to a poor decision. Does anybody know when Chile got its hands on 2 groove barrels?
If I had to guess, which I am, I'd say Sarco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
The Chilean Army bought thousands of 2 groove barrels from Sarco circa 1959? That is a news flash. Here I was thinking they got them from Rock Island from the DOD Surplus Catalogue. Oh, well.
I have a Steyr 1912/61. Nice piece, strong 98 action (in the white). I cleaned up the metal and applied soma Duracoat from the breech down, tiggerguard, and buttplate. Stock had a crack at the pistol grip so I pinned it. other than that, nice wood. It's got a Springfield 03A3 2-groove barrel w/ excellent rifliling. I got moa groups w/ my handloads. if you find one, don't let it go....:beerchug: