Newly Acquired Remington 1903 Question

I recently acquired a Remington 1903 sn 3221XXX with a 8/42 marked R barrel. The seller said this gun is "untouched" (no parts switched out, didn't go through arsenal rebuild or repair).

I noticed the underside of the bayonet lug is marked H (that means SA) instead of R and the right side of the milled lower arm band is marked U (that means SA) instead of U and R.

The firing pin is not marked but should have a R stamped on it.

This info is according to J.C. Harrison's book on the Remington O3 1941 to 1943.

Did Remington use any SA parts during assembly?

Also, the stock is marked RA with three other undiscernable letters in a long rectangular box. The tip of the stock, the fore-end is stamped with a flaming bomb. I've never seen this before on a stock. Any significance?

I know the Remington isn't an early model (1941) but, using Harrison's book on IDing the rifle, I can't tell it it is a 1942 model or a 1943 model. I conclude it is not totally Remington parts.

It has a front sight cover marked 064157-4 on the left side and a G in a triangle on the right side. I appears this front sight cover has to be removed to replace the H bayonet lut with a R bayonet lug. Am I correct or is there a way to remove the upper band without removing the front sight cover?

Your input is appreciated. Should I just keep the rifle as is or would replacing two parts enhance its collector value?

The seller, through ignorance or design was feeding you wrong information. Maybe the rifle was untouched since overhaul, but it hasnt been "untouched" since it was manufactured. Most of the parts you mention are indeed not Remington, although they could be Rock Island, as well. The stock sounds like a M1903A3 from 1943 or early '44.

Remington did NOT use any Springfield parts.

The "Model of 1942" and "Model of 1943" that Harrison uses are his own invention and had no basis in fact. Your rifle is called either a Remington M1903 or M1903 (Modified) (or both). It is not original.

Tmark -

Sadly, Rick is 100% correct. Your rifle has been through a rebuild at the very least. From your preliminary findings it sounds that in all likelihood you purchased a typical parts gun. I think you were already coming to that conclusion yourself and as you did more research you'd find there are many more parts that are incorrect. Even the front sight cover you described is a replacement part.

You asked if you should start replacing parts to help the 'collector value' or leave it as is - I'd definitely leave it as is and not put more money into it. It will never have more 'collector value' than it does now.

You didn't say how much you paid for the rifle. If you want to keep that to yourself it's understandable. I sincerely hope you didn't pay the near the price of what an 'untouched original' usually sells for. If you got the rifle for a low price and want to keep it, it might make a good 'shooter'. I'd have a bad taste in my mouth if it were me though. (And it DID happen to me before)

Either way the seller grossly misrepresented what he sold you. I'd contact him and talk about it. If he's honest and made an honest mistake maybe he'll take the rifle back or give you a partial refund if you still want to keep it.

JMO,
~ Harlan

Harlan is right - any of us who hasn't made a similar purchase is lying!! :D

Probably untouched by the dealer who sold it to you. Been through at least 1 maybe 2 rebuilds. Remington stamped the trigger, sear, triggerguard, bolt- all bolt parts, rear and front sight and even the buttplate. Start looking for that little "R" stamp. Good luck.

It is amazing the number of sellers who think they have an "Untouched" rifle when the gun is obviously a common re-worked rifle.

I once encountered a dealer who thoght he had an unfired SC, and really believed that. When I asked him what the OG on the butt stock signified, he couldn't say, said he himself was wondering abuot that.

When I explained what it meant, he was not only skeptical, but turned a little beligerent. He was so convinced he had a rare unfired rifle that nothing could convince him otherwise. Since his price was way beyond reason, I suspect he is still treasuring his rare rifle.

A search of current auctions for 1903s on the popular sites will tell you that most sellers know little about them. 1903-A1s seem to be the least understood followed by "original WW I condition" and Remington 1903s.

If you decide to contact the seller will you let us know how you come out?
(If you're able to, possibly you can send the seller a link to this thread)

The gentlemen in this group have more collective knowledge about 1903's than you'll find anywhere.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck,
~ Harlan

But what on earth is wrong with a reworked rifle??? Jeez. Just shoot it! PD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cafdfw

If you decide to contact the seller will you let us know how you come out?
(If you're able to, possibly you can send the seller a link to this thread)

The gentlemen in this group have more collective knowledge about 1903's than you'll find anywhere.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck,
~ Harlan

---

Harlan,

I emailed the seller a few days ago but no response. I'll give him a call Monday to express my concerns. I'll let you know what happens. Am I open to litigation if I make known on this forum the information on the dealer's business card or any dealer's business card.

PM me or use tmarkows@yahoo.com (preferred). I am still unskilled with all the neat features of this website.

Everyone has been so supportive, tactfully honest, and postively suggestive in respective recommendations. What a neat goup of people!

Thomas

To Pete Davis!

Nothing at all!

Would like to thank tmark for this post, as well as RTL and other poster for their information and responses. :thup:

This thread answered a number of question I had about a Rem 1903 I recently came into "for a steal."

The bore is excellent, although there is pitting on the exterior surface of the barrel near the base of the front sight. Serial number is 30268XX. Barrel dated 12/41. The receiver serial number appears to be consistent with a "born-on" date of mid-February 1942. I can't find anything wrong with the rifle mechanically.

Mine has all the Remington "R" proof marks in the correct places, and the "R" is the correct size. No lightening cuts on the rear sight base, but the rifle is housed in a finger-groove stock, with a barely visible RLB cartouche below and slightly right of the cut-off switch. British lend-lease marks appear on the left side of the rear sight base, and "BNP" stamps can be found in various places. There's a circled "P" behind the trigger guard and a barely visible 43 in front of it. It has the British red paint on the handguards, but very little remains. The red on the upper handguard is also mismatched with the fore and aft lines of the paint on the lower.

I'll post pics in a separate thread in the near future, but this thread was very helpful. Not sure what it's true value is but I'm sure it's more than I paid for it. :dunno: The seller thought he was unloading a "low serial number Springfield" - basically a wall hanger. :rolleyes:

:cool:

The markings on the rear sight base are not Lend Lease markings, but British export markings from the 1950s or early 1960s. The BNP stamp s one of these.

Thanks for the clarification, Rick.

Having looked mine over more, and having finished reading the Red Star article, my 1903 appears to have all its original parts, and the various stampings/markings appear correct.

The stock's got some wear and dings on it and, as noted, there's exterior pitting on the barrel near the front sight base. But it doesn't look like the previous owner tried to "restore it" (e.g., re-blue it) or otherwise alter it, such as for use as a sporter. He did, however, keep the barrel clean (4-groove?), and the bore and crown are in excellent condition.

What are 302-serial range Rem 1903s in similar condition fetching these days? Thanks.

A friend of mine sold a couple in the $2500 range, but they were in nearly new condition, as described in the article. If yours has the export markngs and some wea, maybe a little less.

Thanks, Rick.

If I can ever get around to taking pics, I'll post them in a separate thread for you guys to see, as "wear & tear" can be relative. :dunno:

Forgot to mention also that on mine the rear screw hole in the trigger guard is NOT drilled up through the tang of the receiver. I saw it mentioned somewhere that this was another indicator of an early 1903.

Nick. :cool:

The H on the bayonet lug of the upper band indicates that it was hardened .
The U on the lower band should be "up" when assembled onto the stock,
FWIW.