OT for "car guys"

I know more then few post here so I will ask. Was at a car show on the 4th. and saw a 427 Cobra roadster (Shelby, of course). I gave it a pretty good look and asked the owner who made the kit. He got very indignet and said it was not a kit, it was a real one. "Look at the vin plate in in the engine compartment". I did and it looked genuine, but what do I know? Besdes it could have came from a wreck and I think repros are available. #2988. Possible! What throws me is it is for sale at 41,000. Now I know these sold for ALLOT more some time back so it makes me doubt the car is "real". I questioned the price being so low but the guy just would not answer me (He was pi**ed). His wife said they were not worth more.
Now the question which I know cannot be answered possitively. Think this is a kit? Just a hell of a bargain? What are they currently going for? I saw a 66 Shelby Mustang go for 200,000 few months back at auction. I used to own one, sold it in 1979 (stupid is as stupid does!)

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Originally Posted by Dave

I know more then few post here so I will ask. Was at a car show on the 4th. and saw a 427 Cobra roadster (Shelby, of course). I gave it a pretty good look and asked the owner who made the kit. He got very indignet and said it was not a kit, it was a real one. "Look at the vin plate in in the engine compartment". I did and it looked genuine, but what do I know? Besdes it could have came from a wreck and I think repros are available. #2988. Possible! What throws me is it is for sale at 41,000. Now I know these sold for ALLOT more some time back so it makes me doubt the car is "real". I questioned the price being so low but the guy just would not answer me (He was pi**ed). His wife said they were not worth more.
Now the question which I know cannot be answered possitively. Think this is a kit? Just a hell of a bargain? What are they currently going for? I saw a 66 Shelby Mustang go for 200,000 few months back at auction. I used to own one, sold it in 1979 (stupid is as stupid does!)

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I don't know enough to say authoritatively but $41k seems awfully low for a real, non-kit 427 Shelby Cobra roadster. 'Less'n there was something really badly wrong with it, anyway.

And rather than being annoyed & refusing to talk to you I would have taken the opportunity to "educate" the "customer" by pointing out the features that proved that it wasn't a kit car.

He seemingly acted like he had been caught smokin' in the boys' room by adopting the time-honoured tactic of "deny, deny, deny" & "attack the accuser".

Of course I could be TOTALLY wrong here. Maybe you were the 10th person who had asked the same question in the last 20 minutes & he chose to go off on you. Dunno.

I look forward to other opinions chiming in!

I agree that his attitude sort of indicated he was blowing smoke. I go to allot of car shows and have never seen a real live Cobra 427 except at Shelby Amer. Club events. Allot of kits. I can't afford even 41 grand but if I knew it was real I would borrow the money just to re sell. They had issues from the get-go (weak frnt suspention for one) but they are rare and in demand!

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Originally Posted by Dave

I know more then few post here so I will ask. Was at a car show on the 4th. and saw a 427 Cobra roadster (Shelby, of course). I gave it a pretty good look and asked the owner who made the kit. He got very indignet and said it was not a kit, it was a real one. "Look at the vin plate in in the engine compartment". I did and it looked genuine, but what do I know? Besdes it could have came from a wreck and I think repros are available. #2988. Possible! What throws me is it is for sale at 41,000. Now I know these sold for ALLOT more some time back so it makes me doubt the car is "real". I questioned the price being so low but the guy just would not answer me (He was pi**ed). His wife said they were not worth more.
Now the question which I know cannot be answered possitively. Think this is a kit? Just a hell of a bargain? What are they currently going for? I saw a 66 Shelby Mustang go for 200,000 few months back at auction. I used to own one, sold it in 1979 (stupid is as stupid does!)

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Well,if the body was fiberlgass it would have to be a kit. If the body is beaten aluminum it ups the ante and could be the real McCoy. As for the price. Who knows? He could be just looking to get out from under it or selling it for what he originally paid for it.:dunno:

never thought about checking body material. darn!

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Originally Posted by Dave

never thought about checking body material. darn!

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If you're hot to buy it (or at least to confirm suspicions) I'd smooth over the owners ruffled feathers so you can get another look at it. Also, body material is not fool proof. I know there is one kit-maker who has the original body bucks from AC Cars Ltd. and makes/made bodies off of them. (At least they were doing so in the late '80s)

To find out if it might be an original,check with one of the Cobra clubs,they would have info on the known originals that are out there and how to tell if one is a kit or clone.

You can buy some pretty exotic guns for 41K;)

AND you don't have to worry about some idiot hitting them while texting his girlfriend.

Wonder what theinsurance premiums would be?:yikes:

shelby kits cost roughly 25k for the kit... Just saw an ad somewhere with all sorts of kit cars readily avalible.

Yes, some of the better kits will run 60-70 grand, complete, with a 351 or other engine.

Dave, Looks fishy to me. We had a SuPerformance Mk.III for quite some time, which was a hoot once we rebuilt the engine and upgraded the rear suspension.

SuPerformance has some sort of agreement with Shelby following some legal activity. Also loaded with all sorts of AC parts.

Brad

PS This it?
Race Ads | For Sale: AC Cobra Shelby S/C 427 SideOiler

PPS One other point, Shelbys start their VIN with CSX.

Classic cars....unlike most firearms, have provenance up the gazoo if you look, particularly "one-off" stuff like Shelby's. There IS a Shelby Registry, and if the VIN ain't on it, it's time to start walking.

We get into the same thing with Yenko Stingers in the Corvair World. It's a fairly easy car to "replicate", and the difference in value between the "real" and "Memorex" version is 1000% give or take! Thankfully, real Yenko Stingers are easily identified by the GM/Yenko VIN series.

Shelby, not being one to turn down money, has started a "continuation" series of Cobras. I think they are made with a licensing agreement with Superformance and they all begin with the CSX4xxx series. They are fiberglass bodies and the owner is correct in saying that is a Shelby car, but it isn't one of the original Cobras from the '60's. The original aluminum body cars start with the CSX2xxx serial nos. and are well into the six digit price tag. I think I am about correct on all this, but my memory fads a bit with time. Whether a kit or not they are badassed little cars and a heck of a lot of fun to drive.

They were/are a PITA! I got to work on a couple we raced back in the early 70's! Shel couldn't change the fact that his base AC Ace was designed for a Bristol motor generating a whopping 130 HP! You couldn't own an old Shelby without owning and knowing how to use a TIG as well! Little things like changing the battery in a Cobra was also an involved and VERY costly adventure!

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Originally Posted by John Kepler

They were/are a PITA! I got to work on a couple we raced back in the early 70's! Shel couldn't change the fact that his base AC Ace was designed for a Bristol motor generating a whopping 130 HP! You couldn't own an old Shelby without owning and knowing how to use a TIG as well! Little things like changing the battery in a Cobra was also an involved and VERY costly adventure!

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John,
Actually I agree somewhat. The first ones with the leaf spring front suspension were awful. The later 427SC suspension with the coil springs weren't too bad. The aluminum body panels were always cracking and twisting. Still mine isn't much fun to cruise around town in, it's a much better road car. 510 hp and 2300 pounds is a different kind of car to drive. You have to be dedicated I guess, but it's time for me to sell mine and buy more guns.

When those first came out they sold for $9,000. [that may have been the 289]
427 version, 0-60 in 3 1/2 seconds, since equalled, but not beaten.

bradtx--thats it! I knew the wheels were not right and neither is the steering wheel. Now the Vin was 2988 and was marked with the English AC company name and and address. So plate was real or a repro stamped with a number. The numbers started with CSX 3001, Nov. 64 and ended with CSX 3358 in Feb.66. So 2988 would be a real number. There were European market 427 bodies sold with 289 engines #COB6101 -COB6127. The US car cost $7495 for the street version. The ad states CMC body, who is that? and unless a misprint he says vin is OSX, whats that about? But I'm sure I read CSX on vin plate.

CMC is Classic Motor Carriage a replica car kit builder.

It had to be a replica. Some of them sell for $40,000 or so.

An original 427 Cobra in excellent condition would probably be worth 8 to 10 times the $41,000 price he was asking.

Probably a kit. 427 Cobras (there were only about 35 built, all others were 428cuin) started with CSX 3xxx serial no's. None were CSX2xxx; those were 289 cuin. My brother & I built a 427 kit in '88. Fiberglass. But you couldn't know it unless you looked at it or felt it.

It's a fake. It doesn't even qualify as one of the second generation cars made up of frames, parts, and original aluminum body panels left over in CS's garage for 35+ years. At least a few cars were assembled and sold for about 200K. 1960s versions are at least 4-5 times that much money. One sees them at vintage race events like the Monterey Historics. BK

I know a local guy who owns an original Shelby Cobra 289; he took it off the road in 1975, & it hasn't left his garage since then. This is a very specialized collecting area, & only someone who is really into this car knows what to look for; there are several VIN plates in locations that only an expert knows, & they must all be correct. This fellow gets queries once or twice a year from folks who track him down from DMV records, but he won't even let them see the car.

One interesting story concerns "Bill Cosby's Cobra". Apparently Bill once owned this car, but sold it. A subsequent owner drove it off the Pacific Coast Highway, & it remained submerged for a while. Eventually someone salvaged the unusable wreck & removed all the VIN plates & put them on another wrecked Cobra that had been repaired, & sold the car as "Bill Cosby's restored Cobra".

The bottom line: You had better know what you are looking at, or you may get a car that has "problems".