NRA Sporter in .35 Whelen on GunBroker

A friend of mine asked my opinion of this rifle currently on GunBroker (it has been on there for awhile): http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=133818510

It is described as a 1903 NRA Sporter in 99+% condition, rebored to .35 Whelen caliber, purportedly the former personal property of Col. Townsend Whelen himself. According to my SRS book of DCM Rifle Sales, the serial number of 134400x falls right in the middle of a block of NRA Sporters, so at least that checks out.

But what about the rest of the story? Your opinions, please!

Cheers,
Peconga in Boise, Idaho

Nothing that I see other than his story ties it to Col. Whelen. For $50 a letter from SRS will tell who it was shipped to, and if the information existed showing shipment to Col. Whelen, the rifle would have that letter.

"Bolt is not serialized, only national match rifles were,"

Something else suspect as in that serial number range the bolts were numbered.

im with Johnny on this, though the rifle is nice, id want to see the serial number, and some better pics, maybe of the bolt , receiver ring edge, stock, barrel dates, ect..
always buy the rifle, not the story.
example. i own a NRA sporter that has a hit on SRS, that i personally rebarreld to .257R imp.
it wasnt built for anyone special, and has no history, other then owned and rebarreled by me.
and if i wanted to , i could date and mark the barrel and nobody would be able to tell. and make up some BS story to go with it.
good thing thats not my style..
i would be a bit gunshy of any seller who lists his rifle along with a bad additude.

The seller is mistaken in saying the NRA Sporter did not have the serial number on the bolt. Those made prior to 1924 did not have the bolt numbered but this is a much later NRA Sporter. The bolt sn on a rifle in this serial number range would normally be on the BOTTOM of the bolt. This would require rotating the extractor 90 degrees to to see the number if the bolt is out of the rifle I advised the seller of this but I doubt if he even looked under the extractor. He seems to be very confident that he is correct. It would be interesting to see if the original barrel was bored out to .35 or if it is an aftermarket barrel. Pictures would help.

Did Townsend Whelen ever have a .35-Whelen and if so, when?

As he was the inventor of the cartridge, or at least it was named after him; he must have had one. His book MISTER RIFLEMAN has pictures of many of his guns and histories and stories about them. Unfortunately my copy is in storage. It's fun to read about guns being shipped to Springfield Armory to be worked on. As a competitive shooter of long standing, as well as a Colonel of Ordnance, "Rank had its privileges..."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

always buy the rifle, not the story.

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With no known history of a Sporter being produced in 35 Whelen, and no documentation from the seller, it's value is less than an original. Plus, it seems, this guy does have an attitude problem, probably because he was the guy who bought the story!

i have met this seller in person once before, and yes, he has an additude.
though for some strang reason, he was real nice to me.
and asked why i didnt buy the H T 22 that was being offered for sale at that show.
i said, cuz it aint a Hoffer Thompson 22. thats why.
rifle wasnt marked right, and the job was pourly done as well. i belive he has the rifle with a scope on it for sale right now.
iv never traded or delt with the guy, and he was nice to me, i still say,
buy the gun, not the story.

I bought a 1927NM off Gunbroker about 2 years ago. The seller also had a NRA Sporter in 35 Whelen that he was trying to sell. The rifle had a bad bore when he bought it , and he had it bored out and chambered in 35 Whelen. Not the same fellow..........he was located in Texas. Might be the same rifle?

Up to $1350.00 with 2 minutes to go....reserve not met yet.......not my cup of tea....



218bee

I have an 1863 Springfield with "A.L." carved into the stock. No doubt about it, Abraham Lincoln owned this beauty during the Civil War. Everyone knows Springfield made up many Presentation Rifles for politicians. Talk about rare of the rare. You will see this baby on Gunbroker very soon. Let the party roll!

Col. Whelen did not develop the .35 WHELEN cartridge. In his own book (WHY NOT LOAD YOUR OWN BY Col. Townsend Whelen) he says under the .35 WHELEN loading data:
”This cartridge was developed by James V. Howe in 1922 and was named for the writer, the idea being a cartridge, more powerful than the 30-06 that could be used in any bolt action suitable for the latter cartridge without alteration”
In my opinion a “Springfield Sporter “ that has been modified loses a lot of value unless it has some particular significance, i.e. ( one modified by Bob Owens for E. C. Crossman and documented ). A sporter modified by some unknown gunsmith for some unknown purchaser would not command a significantly higher price.
JMHO

In later years Whelen started sharing the spotlight with others, he clearly designed the .35 Whelen and it’s well documented in circa 1923 publications.
I would disagree that a unknowns custom sporter has little value, I can think of several that would sell between 5-10K and the maker is unknown.

An unknown maker of a nondescript .35 Whelen without papers commands 5-10K. Where? Please hurry with your response. Not on the Left Coast and we have at least 2 Hitler Lugers out here. By the way, guys tell me it is nothing to fake up "real" papers.

Calif-Steve, Where did the word nondescript come from? I believe Michael was speaking of a high qualilty rifle from an unknown maker. I collect the 1922 series Springfields. Out of the dozen or so in my collection my favorite is a 1922M1 that was sold through the DCM as a barreled receiver and stocked by an unknown. It is also probably the most valuable and my collection includes some closet queens.

This is merely a "story" gun. The "story" is that is was made for Col. T. Whelen. Has anyone contacted the Whelen family? Nothing anywhere proves this story. Sorry, it is a nice M1903 rifle, for sure. Then why not sell it as such? Why force a story out into the marketplace that is probably not true in the first place and turns off honest collectors in the second place. Nothing in this rifle tells me Mike Koklus didn't build the stock and it was then put together in Southern California. Sorry, sell it as is, with no "story" and watch it fly out the door.

Has anyone contacted the Whelen family? Yes but not for this, anyone interested in this rifle should READ my first post.

It Bob Owen no "S".

Might be worth your time to try to find a copy of MISTER RIFLEMAN. Might even be possible to compare photos...

i had a rifle said to be built by Whelen, it has a small spot in Brophys, i have posted some pics in the past..a 1922 in cal, 22 Hornet with a single digit serial number.
no proof, but still cool.

:wave:In Part 3 of Whelen's book "Mister Rifleman" entitled "A Rifleman's Battery"[photo of rifle is in book !] the ONLY .35 WHELEN, Whelen mentions ever owning was a rifle originally built by James V. Howe at Frankford Arsenal in caliber .400 WHELEN IN 1922. It was a 1903 Springfield with a NIEDNER barrel and sent to Douglas in 1950 and only then, rebarrelled to .35 Whelen. The rifle itself is described as heavily engraved, with a finely checkered trap buttplate w/oil can, floorplate and triggerguard are scroll engraved with a gold TW, and with a gold Buffalo inlay on the guard , the rifle is equipped with a Howe-Whelen bolt sleeve sight with safety. It is safe therefore to say this rifle was NOT the property of COL. TOWNSEND WHELEN !!! Warmest Regards Jerry

There you go!

Beware of the good deal, and ignore the story.

Jim

This is the rifle in question, converted from .400 to .35, belongs to my friend Mark. Not a very good picture I had my little pocket camera.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../2030101-1.jpg