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Hey guys,
Just learned that the CMP will be offering Bavarian carbines on October first.
Anybody have a guess as to what the prices might be?
From what I have read, seems like these will be in very good condition. Very interesting story on these.
Regards...and death to tyrants,
Lancebear
$999.99 for SG.
$799.99 for RG.
Thanks Scott. That would be cruel. CMP is certainly gettin' hoity toity with their prices if your guess turns out to be true. Course they may only have ten to fifteen thousand.
Regards and thanks,
LB
I was hoping for prices to not be much greater than what the regular service and field grades were priced at.
Going by the auctions, I'd say Scott is pretty close!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottR
M-1 Carbines Bavarian Police Agency Set 1/12 Auction
M-1 Carbines Bavarian Police Agency Set 2/12 Auction
I think I read on CMP forum that they had 7-8000 bavarians. Got a feeling that they are getting close to the end of carbine availability. Then watch the prices soar!
That said, if folks really desire these over a "regular" SG or FG, then that justifies a higher cost. If folks think them akin to the FGs and SGs, then they should be buying up the SGs and FGs while they are available.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparsons
The essence of collectible sales price is scarcity. There are fewer in existence than regular carbines so the price should be more. How much more? I can't say how much any other person would pay, I can only say what I will pay.
I will buy one if the increased cost is $100 or less. From watching the auction prices of carbines, I am relatively cheap. I do not expect to be ordering one.
I lucked out. I received a beautiful all blued Austrian for the SG Inland price. The only thing missing was the stamp on the receiver.
What makes these Bavarian/German markings so valuable ? What is wrong with the Itialian police carbines or the ones the Greeks used to fight Communism.
Personally when I find a part with markings from other countries on them I remove them and repark the part. To me they are worse than a Blue sky marking.
GCK,
It's just one of those collecting things that happen. Not long ago at all they were thought of as any other import marked gun and only had a small following. I think some of this is fueled by the CMP hype and sometimes it doesn't reflect true long term market value but who knows about collecting.
The one difference I appreciate about them is the German guns have generally been taken care of far better that the imported Korean, etc.
Personally I don't think the difference between a good rebuild of the same quality and a Bavarian marked carbine should be more than $100 or so. JMO
Recently I was parts dealing with a guy and I said I had a nice Win Trigger Housing. He seemed quite interested.
When I told him it had the Austrian marks on the bottom, he wanted no part of it.
I can't believe that it's that "worthless". I plan to put it up for sale again soon.
I've had a number of "Bavarians", and still have a couple. I like that (as Harlan pointed out) they have generally be superbly maintained, and also that they have an additional and unique bit of additional history associated with them.
Kind of interesting to think about a carbine that made it through the war on our side, and was then carried around for years by a German Game Warden or Forestry Policeman.
kikokat, would that be original Bavarian/Austrian leather slings? If so, we could start another thread on the authenticity of such! :lol:
BHP,
I believe all the ones I had were original Austrian slings. Most were marked "STOLLA" for the manufacturer.
The fellow who would know most about these is Jim Mock who set up the "Bavarian" M1 carbine web site. Home Page
In addition to his research, I believe he had an opportunity to see many of the slings that came on the current batch of Austrian/Bavarian carbines the CMP is selling.
You might drop him an email through his site.
HTH,
John
Carbines are the only USGI firearm that are 100% WWII issue. Unless you get into the oddball M2s and 3s which are very scarce and over the $5k mark in any condition, especially humped together.
I recd this week, a CMP SG Rockola and if it had been restamped, refinished and had a plum trigger housing, I would have sent it back so fast the FedEx driver would have gotten overtime.
Brings to mind when Blue Sky was bringing in import carbines for $120 and guys were stripping them and selling the parts. Glad somebody likes them, but not me. They are $200 rifles and are so far removed from USGI WWII issue, they may as well have a plastic stock and a 1000 meter scope.
The CMP had a few box loads of Inland "Bavarian" carbines at this year's Eastern Games at Camp Butner, NC. They were all sold as "Field Grade" at the normal price (in between the $419 rack grade and $495 service grade price).
I picked out one that was in Austria, and had the Austrian markings. Original 3/43 barrel on the Inland receiver within the appropriate s/n range for the barrel. It had been rebuilt by the Raritan (NJ) arsenel at some point.
Had very low chamber and muzzle measurements... a good shooter (which is why I selected it). The Austrian markings are on the trigger guard and the stock, and are well and cleanly struck.
It was well cared for, and looked more like a Service Grade than a Field Grade once I cleaned it up. So, any additional value due to the "rarity" of this subset of Carbines is a nice bonus...
I expect that the interest in Bavarian/Austrian carbines my have been stimulated by the website. It's likely that in their auctions the CMP has been testing the market value of them, and they'll price them accordingly. If they have been consistently selling in a given range of prices, expect the CMP to price them just below that range for the October website sales.
Marc
I don't know where you are getting this information. I picked up a Service Grade IBM Austrian (LGKV) in July for $575. It is pictured below.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...82611445-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...57420665-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
Well, GCK, everyone has his own opinion and all are my friends, but to me, having served with a foreign ally is all part of the history of the piece. I own a mint Inland all in WWII configuration I picked up thirty years ago, and recently acquired a racker Austrian IBM that I cannot believe is a racker -- the Austrians certainly took care of their guns. On the other hand, last year's Italian return SG was not well maintained and had obviously been abused. But it's all part of the story and the luck of the draw, and I think we should be very grateful the CMP exists and is giving us a chance at these pieces of history.
BTW, I missed the boat on the CMP 15 round mags . . . and do not have even one GI mag for my Austrian. Can anyone spare one please? I will go $15 for one in good condition.
Sailorman,
I'll be happy to send an Inland mag if you live in a state where they're legal. I have several.
(At least my ex-wife didn't think of pawning my mags when she pawned all my carbines!) :bitch:
~ Harlan
nalrahtrohs(AT)aol.com
I have an early IBM M1 Carbine "Bavaria Border Police" with "AO" receiver. Anyone interested in pics?
Matt-
These sort of posts make me feel sick ! Six years ago, when I was helping Jim MOCK identify this stuff, we were called idiots, now everybody wants one, amazing how times change. Mike.
If I have succeeded in nothing else after all the work I have done, the fact more people are aware of the history of these carbines is good enough for me. What one chooses as "collectible" is largely a matter of personal preferences. If anyone wants to get rid of their non-original and altered GI carbine that has Austrian or German markings, I know some cops and retired cops that would be interested. eh Mikey?
For those curious to see this history presented in 3D, drop by the display area at the NRA Annual Meetings in St. Louis during April 2012. You might find it educational, if nothing else. Besides Austria and Germany agencies, each U.S. manufacturer will be represented and those from the same manufacturer are different serial number blocks. There are 15 at the moment (every Bavaria agency, almost every Austrian Gendarmerie agency, plus others) along with a wide range of accessories and ammo. I'm always looking to add to this, especially before April.
The display itself has an appropriate historical setting with many original photographs and even includes original police patches worn by the German and Austrian officers only during the Occupation period along with barbed wire on top of the fences. I'm working on the spotlights.
Jim
You know any display by Jim would be worth the trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeplessnashadow
Has anyone heard any more about this show?
Date in April?
Location in St. Louis?
Just came across this post tonight and wish I'd of seen it sooner. Been feeling like a road trip.
Thx,
Charlie-painter777
Charlie
I live in the St. Louis area and had offered to help Jim out with the show. He pm'd me this week and said he won't be making it to the show. He had a few problems at the Dallas show and decided to skip the NRA show here. Email him if you want the full story as I don't want to get into it here.
I would have loved to be part of it but it just wouldn't work out.
The NRA national show is this weekend here in St. Louis.
It is a huge show and a big political event also.
Dave