New to me 1903a3 Remington

Hi, I've been lurking and reading on the forum.
Lots of great info.

This year , with the kids graduated, I'm finally chasing my wish list of WWII rifles.

I've shot some Garands before and fell in love.
So it was my first purchase this year.

Today I purchased a Remington 1903a3 for $700. Never shot one before.

It gauges 1 on the muzzle and 1 TE.
I don't remember the numbers for head spacing, but I was told it was right on. A set of go - nogo inserts were passed through it.


The 03a3 was part of a private collection of Garands a local armorer of Garands was selling for an individual on consignment.
He did the inspections in front of me, it was part of the group he hadn't gone through yet.

I've been looking for a good shooter, that wasn't a basket case.
In the past, the couple he had, he told me to pass on, and were priced at $650 on his rack.

But this one, after he inspected it, he said he would normally price at $900 on the rack.
But it came home with me at the $700 the consignee wanted for it.
Compared to what else was around locally it was less expensive, plus I trust this armorer.
At the local gun shops, 03a3 are priced at $750 - $900.

So locally I feel I did ok, more soo being able to have it inspected before I bought it adds value to me.

But over all, did I overpay a little bit?

Every part has an R on it.
I haven't taken it a part yet, but couldn't find a marking on the trigger or trigger guard when fully assembled.

S/N 3377xxx

Barrel RA 7-42

4 groove, looks bright and sharp, just dusty.
All metal has a light coat of oil on it, seems in the barrel too.

The bolt itself is blued, receiver and rear bolt body is park.

The barrel appears blued, not park.

In bright light, finish seems about 80-90% in areas.

The only downer I saw, is it seems at one point it time, someone did a minor refinishing to the stock, maybe while it was together. Light sanding, and lots of oil. From a far, it looks just like an older darker stock.

Looks nice overall, but the marks on the left side are soo faint, it seems a trick of the eye if I'm seeing partials of them or not. Still not sure.


On the bottom of the stock there are 4 different marks seemingly in circles in front of the magazine plate. They are more evident, just hard to make out, a bit blurred / fuzzy.

I'm told the butt plate should be original, it has a tight checkering.
There are some numbers/letters stamped on the top tang that bolts to the top of the stock.

I've got to get some pictures together and post them.
I understand, that's the real meat and potatoes of posting a "new to me" post!

I hope to get to the range this Wed if it doesn't rain.

I've shot my Garand, and have heard these 03 kick like a mule compared to the Garand. Should I be getting a shooting pad?

I have m2 ball , greek surplus. Seems to kick about 20% more than the lake city ammo I first starting shooting with this year (bought it with the Garand).
Anyone else notice the same?

Hey ramit,

Sounds like you did well. Think the receiver and barrel should be parked and everything else blued cept' the safety lock? Is the trigger guard blued? Maybe the barrel is a very dark park. Shine a very bright light on it to see. You might have an original barrel, check Vishooter's sight to see if something is close. Could also have a Remington stock. Is it a straight stock?

Am no expert, but have learned much over the last year and more. The experts will certainly chime in with their comments. Ya' did good. Even if it's just a fine shooter. Waitin' on the photos.

Regards and Liberty or Death,

Lancebear

Lancebear,
Thanks.

It's a straight stock.
No cracks, dowels / fixes are apparent.
I've been doing some more searching on the web and found some s/n lists.
The barrel dates 7-42, and the receiver s/n dates in the group for '42, but another list has groups by month, and shows my s/n in Jan '43 - about mid group for that month.

Just looked, and it was Vishshooter's list by month I found.

At the shop, one gent said that original barrels ran about 4 month or so earlier date wise than the receivers they were put on.
That would make mine 4-5 months depending on the s/n list by month.


Looking with a bright flashlight....

Yes, the trigger guard looks blued, but worn, maybe as good as 70%, or as low as 50% at worst.
The magazine plate matches exactly.

It seems the safety and the assy on the rear of the bolt that safety is in, is park, grey. Very complete, 80-90%

The actual bolt and handle are blued, looks 80%

Looking at the barrel, near the barrel band and near the front sight mount and blade, it looks park grey (like the safety and bolt housing assy the safety is in) then fading into the stretch of barrel inbetween the front sight mount, which looks "dark green", like a patina.
Seems the finish is less than I 1st thought, now looking real close with a bright flash light. Looks like less than 30% if it is suppose to be a grey park.

The over all receiver looks like this dark green patina , when looking at it with the flash light. Almost like it has a layer of BLO or something on it.

Found the same thing on the knob end of the bolt, but it easily comes off with the finger nail, showing the blueing.
Like a build up of oil or wax.
Too thin to be cosmoline.
But doesn't come off the receiver.

I'm wondering if the constant application of RLO or BLO, someone built up a coating on the receiver?

I hope to get pictures in the bright sun, this week, when I'm not on the road.

Under normal room light, and in the shop (which I thought was "bright"), and out side (overcast day), it just looked like a dark blueing, not this dark green with the flash light (cheap LED flash light).

The grey park on the rear safety assy of the bolt is very evident, and grey and very complete.
Other than the R's all over the place on parts of the bolt and such, I didn't find any numbers , like found on the Garand bolts.

The grey park on the safety and it's assy housing, is the same color the areas left on the front sight blade and mount, and areas on the barrel close to the barrel band and front sight mount.


Sorry for the delay in the pix..
Thanks for the discussion.
Looking forward to learning / discovering more.

Hey ramit,

Break that rifle down and soak all of the metal in mineral spirits for an hour or so. Any old dried cosmoline or whatever should come off with a good wipe off.

The barrel should maybe precede the receiver by three months. That's not carved in stone, but ya' might be a little long in the difference. But......

If the bore is fine and the wood is good. Nothing to worry about.

Maybe the arsenal rework marks were sanded off by a prior owner, but for the price of the rifle and the good readings about ME and TE, it should be a fine shooter that you got for a fair price.

What are the markings on the bolt root top and bottom?

The big dogs will chew your bone and give you more info than me.

Bright flashlight is your best friend when observing a firearm in person. Like the Streamlight ones.

Lancebear

Ramit never shot one? Kicks like a mule compared to the M1. Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lancebear

Hey ramit,

Break that rifle down and soak all of the metal in mineral spirits for an hour or so. Any old dried cosmoline or whatever should come off with a good wipe off.

The barrel should maybe precede the receiver by three months. That's not carved in stone, but ya' might be a little long in the difference. But......

If the bore is fine and the wood is good. Nothing to worry about.

Maybe the arsenal rework marks were sanded off by a prior owner, but for the price of the rifle and the good readings about ME and TE, it should be a fine shooter that you got for a fair price.

What are the markings on the bolt root top and bottom?

The big dogs will chew your bone and give you more info than me.

Bright flashlight is your best friend when observing a firearm in person. Like the Streamlight ones.

Lancebear

---

I'll double check the bolt when I get home. I tried to look for any other marks other than the "R" and could find any,
Do I need to take the bolt apart?
(Sorry if it's a nob question)
I had it out a couple of times thinking I was missing something, that there should be more markings.

I'll try the ms on a small section of the receiver and see what comes of it.
I don't think it's the cosmoline, but thinking it's oil from someone constantly oiling the stock that's dried to a near lacquer like finish.
When I take pix, I'll try and capture that aspect.

Would an arsenal rebuild use a much older barrel?
From the little I read, most of the barrels made in 43 and after were 2 grove.
So I was thinking it was original.
Yes, the barrel date(7-42) and receiver(1-43) date puts it 5-6 months.
Another s/n list just lists my receiver s/n as part of the lot for year 1942 (near the end of the lot), and not by month.

Barrel marking has the RA , then the bomb, then the 7-42. On the underside of the barrel, opposite those marks, is a P.

Could someone have purchased the barrel, and fitted it, attempting to make it correct? Were / Are such barrels on the surplus market?

The collector's Garand collection it was part of, this was the only 03a3 in it, along side two 03. And about 10 correct grade CMP Garands...:madsmile:

Yup , was looking for a good shooter, and that was my top end price, but all the "R"'s (I know , it's not a SC make) made me more excited about it.

To me having a Remington 03a3 , is liking having a SA M1 Garand, for me anyway.

I think the straight stock is soo distinctive, but I do like the looks of the C stock better.

Lesson learned on the flashlight!!. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ibuymilitaria

Ramit never shot one? Kicks like a mule compared to the M1. Jeff

---

So I hear!!!

Thinking I should buy a shooters shoulder pad.
Biggest long firearm I've ever shot/owned that was not semi-auto was:
A 10gauge shotgun, single shot for goose hunting.
And a lever action Marlin chambered in 35 Rem (sorry I ever sold it).

Not sure how the 30-06 bolt action will compare, but I fully assumed it would be more than the Garand.

keep it tight to the shoulder for sure. had a friend fire my 1903a4 2 weekends ago, and didnt listen when I told, and showed him a bunch of times to hold it tight. He just regained full use of his right arm the other day :D

that 10 gauge goose load out of a single barrel shotgun! Just get a good position with your 03A3 and shoot. Firm into your shoulder and a firm cheek weld on the stock. Keep your right thumb forward, not under your nose. My '03 likes that Greek ammo just fine.

I nob question here, so please be kind.....

I understand the s/n receiver date lot txt file on
http://vishooter.home.att.net/ra_serialization.txt

But the "Serial Number/Barrel Date Lists":

http://vishooter.home.att.net/RA3.txt

I'm not clear on.

Is that a list contributed to, by people of barrels "known" to be original vs receiver numbers?

TIA...

Tnx gents , regarding the re-coil...... the 10g is a fun one to bring skeet shooting to let a newbee shoot. I warn them 1st, and offer them to try it.
Fun to watch them rock back onto to 1 foot and then take a step back to get their balance back! My 100lb friend , just about ended up on his butt.

In thinking about it, I think one of the things I do wrong when on the bench shooting, is I get too low to the bench.
Where I shoot, we have shooting benches, and can only shoot from the bench. I rest the forestock on the bags, but I'm starting to think I"m not using enough bags, and wind up bending down to the bench, so more like a prone position withe the shoulder and upper body, than a sitting.

I nob question here, so please be kind.....

I understand the s/n receiver date lot txt file on
http://vishooter.home.att.net/ra_serialization.txt

But the "Serial Number/Barrel Date Lists":

http://vishooter.home.att.net/RA3.txt

I'm not clear on.

Is that a list contributed to, by people of barrels "known" to be original vs receiver numbers?

TIA...

I left them pretty large, so as not to kill the loading of the thread, I'll supply the links to the pix...
I gave up for the week hoping to get time during the day. So I did my best with diffused lighting. Some better than others..

Shots of entire rifle...
(tried to get the color of the stock as close to as it looks in real life with adjusting the whitebalance and compensations levels such on the camera)
Rifle 1

Rifle 2

Rifle 3, close up of receiver area of stock



Stock markings...
What can you see in there? I feel most was lost to someone sanding the stock down some real long time ago. But there is some faint marking(s), at least one.
Near receiver -lighting 1

Near receiver - lighting 2

These are much stronger still, but since I don't have any familiarity with them, they don't ring any bells for me...
Bottom of Stock infront of magazine plate


Butt plate shots...
Butt--plate-installed
(it's not brown, just the lighting. It's just plain metal grey, no finish.)

Butt-plate-top-markings
Does the markings mean anything??


Butt-plate-removed


Butt-plate-removed-underside
That is not rust, it's cosmoline.

Butt of-Stock-with buttplate-removed
??? Someone was digging....




Magazine plate and trigger guard, bottom view..
Sorry, the best one I had came out too dark.
Trigger Guard and magazine plate



Swivel Markings...
Swivel-Front-markings

Swivel-mid-markings

Swivel-butt-markings


Sight Markings...
On the blade itself, it looks like a large A.
On the blade holder, there is a small R.
Sight-Front-markings

There's a small R near the lowest elevation setting.
Sight-rear-markings


Mag on/off marking...
Mag-on-off-marking



Entire receiver top view...
Receiver 1

Much better lighting and color true to what I see, closer up shot as well of the chamber opening, bolt in battery, and receiver markings...
Receiver 2


Barrel Markings... (colors did not come out well).
Barrel-top-markings
Barrel-bottom-markings


Bolt Markings...
Bolt-safety-marking

On here the bolt is blued, and the block holding the safety assy is park grey.
There is a small R on the right side of that block, to the left is a faint marking.
I got the impression it's a square, but barely make it out, and maybe a number "4" in there... I don't know. very very hard to make out.
Bolt-undersidemarkings 1

This portion of the bolt is a very dark blue. There is an R in a circle.
Bolt-underside-markings 2


Cleaned the barrel tonight, hope to shot her tomorrow...
Just dust came out... clean as a whistle, doesn't seem she was put away used.

Thanks for checking them out, looking forward to the discovery.....

Hey ramit,

I can't answer your questions, but Rick TRL and John Beard certainly can.

Thanks for all of your hard work on the photos. Very fine rifle and photos.

Lancebear

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ramit

I nob question here, so please be kind.....

I understand the s/n receiver date lot txt file on
http://vishooter.home.att.net/ra_serialization.txt

But the "Serial Number/Barrel Date Lists":

http://vishooter.home.att.net/RA3.txt

I'm not clear on.

Is that a list contributed to, by people of barrels "known" to be original vs receiver numbers?

TIA...

---

The Serialization Date list was necessarily calulated from production and shipment records and also factoring in scrap rates etc. The lists are very good but are estimates. This is of course most important if your rifle happens tp be on the cusp of a particular month. Realistically it could go either way.

The second list is, I believe, basically a list of observed rifles. I don't honestly know if Vi Shooter tries to filter the input for "known (or suspected)" originals. This is very tough to do without seeing the rifle or having it scrutininzed by a knowledgable party.

I hope this helps. And BTW don't worry about overpaying. A few years time will most likely erase any premium you might have paid. Meanwhile enjoy your new rifle.

Regards,

Jim

Thanks Gents.

I found in the s/n vs barrel list, one that has the same s/n range as mine (just a tade higher) with a the same month/year barrel as mine.
So if there was/is some strength to the list, it would seem to say that there were some 5-6month old barrels installed on recievers.
"34401xx RA 7-42", from the list.

I shot the 03a3 last night, kick not as bad as I thought, but up there.
With everything else going on, only had a chance to run 15 rnds down range.
Which , after, I felt about the same as I would after 70rnds or so out of the Garand.
The 03a3 puts them where I point, very consistent. I like the thinner front sight. I could only get on a 50yd point, so not as challenging, but touching clover leafs in 3 rnd groups as I moved the rear sight around trying to zero her in for a 6oclock hold.

Lancebear, I tried cleaning off a small section of the receiver, and there's a nice dark green park under that mess.
I didn't have any mineral spirits around but some carb cleaner, which is usually safe on the finishes in the carburator and throttle body, so I figure a little shot on the rag, and light rubbing. But didn't go too far, not sure if it's very safe on a park finish or not.
It seems it's LO, or BLO, or what ever, that someone spent years rubbing into the stock, and all over the metal work too. I went lightly on the barrel as well. And it seems what I thought was partial finish, is a dark grey park under a thick pile of varnish like finish. The grey I 1st saw showing up near the barrel band and front sight mount cause it's probably where the person missed with the rag. I thought the varnish was a pitina on some bare metal due to worn finish.

This weekend I will try and get pictures out side of the receiver.

From doing some more research, it seems the butt plate is a milled one?
I couldn't find an R on it.
Did earlier Remington 03a3 shipped with a milled butt plate?

Tnx much.....

I am a big fan of Marvel Mystery Oil... cleans old grease and also carbon without harming the finish. Sells at auto parts store as an addative for oil or gas. Also a good storage lubricant. GOOD STUFF MAYNARD!

Rifle also looks pretty much as issued and not rebuilt from what I can see; not sure about safety housing finish, (is it blued or parked?). Most parts that should be blued are blued, finish on stock is original, no rebuild marks, small trigger guard... I think this rifle is in issue condition.

Arisak99,
Thank you for the tip on the MMO, I have lots of it in my garage. I love the stuff. But never thought about it on the firearms.

Thank you for the review of the pictures.
At first look, I thought the safety housing was grey park.
But now after cleaning things up, I'm wondering if it's just not as dark of a blueing as on the bolt parts.. which are nearly black.

I will take new pix of the bolt, in the back yard, along with the cleaned up receiver.... or should I stop trying to clean it?????

If it is as as issued than , could it be full of casmoline, (as Lancebear thought) not over oiling of the stock?

Does the milled butt plate go with a late 42 or Jan 43 Rem 03a3?

TIA.

No expert here but your milled ,checkered buttplate's (nice piece BTW) natural home is on an SA 1903. The Remington type was stamped.
regards,
Chief

Better to clean too little than too much. Nothing stronger than #0000 (extra fine) steel wool and lots of oil. Many folks prefer bronze wool. Your rifle has earned the nice patina... stop the active rust and enjoy. You can likely pick up a stamped buttplate with some minor wear for about $10-$15 at any of the larger shows. Entire bolt should be blued.

Hey ramit,

You are quite the writer.

One of my favorite things to do is detailing a rifle in the condition as yours.

Completely strip it and soak the small parts in Hoppe's in a plastic container with a tight fitting top so nothing gets lost. Overnight or an hour or so.

I use Brake-Clean to spray off the large metal if it has active Cosmo, doesn't work on the dried stuff as it evaporates almost instantly. Brake-Clean will not harm Park in the least. The parts with dried Cosmo or old BLO will need a soak in Mineral Spirits, Hoppe's, or Break Free.

Anything that you spray off with Brake-Clean or carb cleaner should be sprayed with Remoil or Break Free right after because they will be bone dry.

Mineral Spirits is probably the best and cheapest cleaner for dried Cosmo and BLO, probably the safest also.

I don't use any steel wool on metal. Use swabs for sticky problem areas.
Best ones are made by Puritan, number REF 806-WC. Six inch hardwood shaft and very tightly wound cotton tips. Medical swabs that cost about twenty bucks for a thousand. I live by them for detailing.

Nice to hear you had good shootin'. Break that bolt down, detailed instructions are on the Inet. Don't need any tools, just your hands. Make sure that you wipe any oil or grease off first so you get a good grip. Bet your bolt is packed with Cosmo, will work for a while but it ought to be packed with good grease. Least that's what I do and have no problems, real slick.

Your wood looks nice and bright and probably not too dry. If you want to get any surface dirt off without doing any harm to patina, wipe the exterior wood off with lemon oil. The dry interior wood would absorb it and change the color so don't put any there.

The methods I have described will not harm any metal finish or patina on the wood. When you are done cleaning the metal, put a light coat of Break Free Collector or Remoil on with a shaving brush and you are done.

Nice rifle, sounds like you might have an original barrel, hope that's the case as it adds value. Just detail it up real good and shoot the crap out of it.

I'll spend a week doing the cleanup on a rifle and always enjoy every minute of it. Very peaceful experience and you learn a lot.

It's "We The People" not "Me The People",

Lancebear

Thank you Lancebear, Chief, JGaynor, and Arisaka99

Chief, as I was trying to research the butt plates, I came across a source that had NOS of the stamped plates and milled plates with checkering, and another with NOS of plates milled smooth.
The more I look the more things I find that I don't read about in other sources.


Lancebear (like your tag line),
Actually, I believe I'm a terrible writer, just lucky when it comes out ok on paper (screen).
I've been trying to learn about the 03a3, via articles on the web. But the 03a3 doesn't seem as well document as the Garand. And seems there are more cross over items, when it went from Springfield to Rem/SC for manufacturing. (butt plates, stocks, barrel grooves, trigger guards).

JGaynor pointed out "small trigger guard"......
I haven't come across material yet that mentioned it.

JGaynor can you expand on that please?

Thank you all very much for the info and for reviewing my 03a3.

Ramit,

on your bbl date to reciever,not sure if you figured it out yet but wanted tolet you know that I have 338XXXX that has a bbl date of 1-43 that is orig. Thanks for a great thread

Hank

Mr Hanky (love the handle! great part of that series! )

Thanks for the info. Seems my receiver date (one list says end of 42 for sure, and other says end of mid Jan 43 for sure) is about 5-6 months later than my barrel date of 7-42.
One list shows an example of the of a 34401xx with a 7-42 barrel, breaking the norm of 2-3 months.
I've got a bunch of feelers out in other circles and in the Remington collectors forum asking for more help on getting input.
One expert I talked to said the 2-3 months isn't written in stone and there execptions (as borne out by a couple of examples the vishooter list - if the info is solid).
I've gotten mix input on the butt plate.. some saying early startups used some early plates, and later went to the stamped with the R. Others saying it must have an R. I emailed one collectors source of all 3 different plates, and they weren't sure.
It's about running even for yes, no, not sure ! LOL....
The butt plate I have on mine is worn.. so if it was done, someone took a used plated and put it on, or did it a long time ago...

I love these mysteries.

I love the heritage in these WWII guns. Wish the stocks could talk.

I saw another 'original' as issued 03a3, where the stamps on the bottom of the stock looked just like mine. Unfortunantly the stamps on the side of the stock along the receiver just aren't good enough to say what is there and what isn't, which stinks.

I came across this document on the Remington Collectors Society.

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/imag...nd_A3-2005.pdf

It lists production rates per month , and months off acceptance / buy off from the gov't.

And it goes on in the notes to explain s/n problems and select batches of s/n's for a4 variants and such.

It seems the "s/n's by the end" of the month is nothing more than a calculation that, not done by records, and the calculations used some assumptions.

Other columns track the production rate by month, as well as by acceptance/buy off.

If you go by production rates, one can more figure closely to within a month or two the born on date . The document goes on to say that after final rifle assy, then the receiver was given a s/n... and there was a 2wk delay there.

So using the 1st column in the document, within a month or two, you can get a better idea of born on date.

So it seems for my s/n, this document agrees with a different list, that didn't go by month, just year which included my s/n as a 42, rather than a 43 rifle.

This list will bring me into Nov 42 or Sept42 for a born on date, rather than Jan 43.

The one on the side is FJA as I see it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ramit

Mr Hanky (love the handle! great part of that series! )

Thanks for the info. Seems my receiver date (one list says end of 42 for sure, and other says end of mid Jan 43 for sure) is about 5-6 months later than my barrel date of 7-42.
One list shows an example of the of a 34401xx with a 7-42 barrel, breaking the norm of 2-3 months.
I've got a bunch of feelers out in other circles and in the Remington collectors forum asking for more help on getting input.
One expert I talked to said the 2-3 months isn't written in stone and there execptions (as borne out by a couple of examples the vishooter list - if the info is solid).
I've gotten mix input on the butt plate.. some saying early startups used some early plates, and later went to the stamped with the R. Others saying it must have an R. I emailed one collectors source of all 3 different plates, and they weren't sure.
It's about running even for yes, no, not sure ! LOL....
The butt plate I have on mine is worn.. so if it was done, someone took a used plated and put it on, or did it a long time ago...

I love these mysteries.

I love the heritage in these WWII guns. Wish the stocks could talk.

I saw another 'original' as issued 03a3, where the stamps on the bottom of the stock looked just like mine. Unfortunantly the stamps on the side of the stock along the receiver just aren't good enough to say what is there and what isn't, which stinks.

---

Yea, the more I look at it, the more I see it... it's there, dang the person that tried to sand it off...

I know this is an old thread, but that barrel is from a Rem M1903, not an A3. Take the handguard off and you'll see evidence of a fixed rear sight base having been installed.

Quote:

---

Mike D

I know this is an old thread, but that barrel is from a Rem M1903, not an A3. Take the handguard off and you'll see evidence of a fixed rear sight base having been installed.

---

Hi Mike,
When I get a chance I'll do so.
It is a very early 03a3 , machined butt plate and all.

What do you see from the photos that leads you to surmise such?

Don't get me wrong, I like your rifle just the way it is, I have one kinda like it. A mixed-bag, so to say.

About the barrel, I believe the earliest dated A3 barrels are 9-42. Like you noted, your serial # dates to Jan. '43. The front sight base is from an A3, but I believe the barrel has been modified to accept the center positioned pin. I think '03 barrels were parked after the FRSB was installed, so yours would show bare metal in that area.

Buttplates were first checkered like yours before WWI. During WWI they were left smooth, to speed production, and then checkered again after. Not sure when they went smooth again.

Your stock, having bolts instead of pins, is from a later production. Some other parts on your rifle appear to have a later parkerized finish.