Printable View
Hi, I've been restoring some military rifles and while I know it's different from parkerizing can anyone give me a how to on hot bluing without poisoning myself and rusting up every ferrous item in my workshop. The last couple have gone to gunsmiths who have done an excellent job, but I'd like to do the lot myself if possible.
I don't mind spending the money on excellent equipment, as I'm sure this habit is one I'll have for a while.
Cheers
its a big mess with a large learning curv..
i dont receommend anyone thats doesnt know how it works do it at home.
not only is it very dangerous, it can be a heath hazard as well.
the salts run at almost 300 once they splash you, its too late, your burnt,
and youll never forget a small splash of hot sodium hydroxide in the corner of your eyes under you safety glasses.
somethings are better sent to someone that does it for a living.
If ya gotta do it, build an outbuilding reserved just for the task! Doesn't have to be fancy, but its saves you from tons of dramas. (keep a phone w/ you for emegencies, though!)
I would suggest you find a "Black Oxider" in your area. You must disassemble and prep all the parts. All the Oxider will do is clean and dip your parts. The one I use will Oxide 10 guns for around $100. (One gun is $30.)
Good Luck.
Not all black oxide finishes will be suitable for firearms use! Some rub off fairly easily. Check before you invest your weapons.
most commercial metal finishers wont work on firearms, and have at least a 100.00 min.
avoid them..they are ment for things other then guns.
find a gunsmith that will treat you right..
or contact me, ill be happy to shoot you some rates.
Hi,
I'm learning more about bluing myself so I need to clarify what you want to do. Are you looking to start tank blueing, acid bluing, quick bluing or salt bluing??
We send acid bluing out and send tank bluing out too (although the shop used to do it until the accountant complained about the smells)
We do salt bluing (nitre salt) and it isn't difficult although splashing yourself with 300 degree salts is bad for your nerves. This bluing generally makes a more cobalt blue color (based on slat temperature). We also use a quick blue process. Also called Belgium bluing. This is an acid blue process, but doesn't leave the part to rust over night. We buy the Belgium blue liquid from Brownells. You boil water and put the part in for a minute or two. Take it out and swab on the compound. Back into the water for a bit, then out and fine brush the surface. Then repeat until you get the color you want. This gives a darker blue then the nitre blue. But it doesn't wear as well as the tank blue and certainly not as well as the slow acid blue.
So which blueing process are you considering?
I want to do tank bluing.
Enfields weren't hot blued, BTW. Closest to original is "rust" bluing, which is SLOW, but requires much less equipment and is generally easier to set up. Mostly you need time and lots of elbow grease! The chemicals are applied either cold or no more than 100 degrees C. Build a "sweat box" and stock up on brushed ans steel wool. Since it takes multiple applications before done, its easier to redo if blotchy or some such. The greatest danger is forgetting to check the rusting progress- might end up w/ pitting if left for several extra days...
Hot chemical blues are primarily a post WWII development to save time. So the "slow" method actually looks more correct, and may be easier overall, if you don't intend on doing bunches of weapons at a time. Safer, too!
I'm not just thinking about enfields.
Howe wrote a very compehensive book on gunsmithing including the bluing processes. You might try looking there. I believe he made his own formulations but I'd start with commercial chemicals. You might find him in the library or get a copy through amazon.com
Brownells.com sells all the equipment and chemicals needed. If you check their website you should also find a tech data sheet that details the process.
GunTech : Dicropan IM One Tank Bluing Kit - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools
is the start of it. I can't get the whole process sheet to show up but have always found that emailing them and asking for help to see it gets a direct link sent to me.
I've got the book and find it very interesting and informative, but as it was written in 194o-something many of the formulas are for swab applied rust bluing and other methods, I will probably give some of these a run as well as the method described by Roy Dunlap in his book, but what I'd really like to get my head around is modern, tank, hot bluing. The sort that your gunsmith does.
Rust blue techniques are also used on fine doubles, as the hot salt bath will separate the solder joints holding the barrels together.
Its not an either/or situation. You can do both. Rust bluing is just quicker to set up and requires less expensive equipment. Downside is the time and labor required.
ETA- Ach, missed your last post! Sorry.
BTW, my "rifle" gunsmith does Parkerizing. He sends out the bluing jobs to a fellow who only does rust bluing. My pistolsmith (who only gets the tedious stuff I don't want to do...) sends his work to another fellow. I know ONE good local hot blue-er. The other "gunsmith" hot tank users, well, mostly, ummm,:ugh:
Yeah, before I got too much further I'll do a rifle using a rust bluing method detailed in Howe or Dunlaps book. I've just bought a few fixer upper's/parts No1 mk111*s and they will be the guinea pigs. Tried and of the methods specifically?
I'll have a shot a parkerizing while I'm at it, there's a few real easy looking techniques/formulas in Dunlaps book. I'll post the procedure.
I,ve had good results with rust bluing, using salt (industrial stuff,sal ammoniac) be carefull with the solution you make, and try on scrap first, very basic, clean item, apply solution (i use a paper towel), leave to rust, place in boiling distilled water approx 20 mins, remove from water and remove the black rust (carding) using soft wire brush or wire wool etc. repeat process untill desired finish. i prefare to boil once a light coating of rust appears, you have a bit more control , but will need to repeat the process up to 5 times.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbonesmith
hot salts blue.. or Black oxide coating as it pertains to guns..
sodium hydroxide 5 parts.
amonium nitrate 2.5 parts.
10 pounds to one gallon of pure water.
heated to 270 to 300 degrees
since you cant get amoinum nitrate anymore, sodium nitrate can be used in its place.
thats just the basics, and not the exact formula i use..but will work and give you a nice dark black finish.
remember that disposing of depleted salts is tough to do, you should nutralize the sodiumm hydroxide, Brownells sells a product that does this.
remember to start small, and be safe, keep aluminum away from this..you wont like the results.
Look at the Caswell, inc. site. They have all the stuff. After you see the prices, you will probably want to find someone locally that does bluing. I did buy the outfit and it works great. I have done several rifles and pistols and all came out like new. The 1911 I did for the owner of the local gun shop put the one I did next to one out of the case and the re-blued one looked better. Remember 95% of your time is in prep. The better it looks going in, the better it is when done.
Buntlineguy,
your kit from caswell, was it a "cold black oxide" kit ? i got one last year have used for a few jobs, only probs i have had is with walther barrels, finish is good but they rusted, even when drenched with oil, after a clean and another dip come out perfect.
...Not to mention the environmental issues. My brother the gunsmith went into this a few years ago and had to build an outdoor area away from the rest of his shop to provide the service and was visited by the ATF and EPA on several occasions to ensure that the disposal of used chemicals and other environmental issues met with Government regulations- and they were very through.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckindenver
To bigduke6.
I got the hot bluing setup.
When ordering I talked with the owner. He was a great help. One additional thing - NO ALUMINUM!!! Even a small bit of aluminum will ruin the whole tank of black oxide solution. And, yes, it is at 295 degrees and burns immediately if you get it on you. Face shield, Leather apron, Good gloves and face mask to keep dust out of your lungs all mandatory. It is not really as difficult as you think. My first gun came out perfect.
OOPS!! I got my suppliers mixed up. Call it age. The hot bluing setup comes from Du-Lite corp. Cold bluing from Caswell. I use the cold bluing to do small parts such as screws or trigger guards when it is not practical to fire up the hot stuff. Sorry for the mixup.
B
aluminum with soduim hydroxide will be an explosive result...
trust me..iv been there, done that..
by mistake i used a strainer for screws and small bits, said it was stainless..
well the frame was stainless, the screen was aluminum...
as soon as it it the mix...wooosh....it was a step and fetch momment for sure,
i still have pink marks on my arms....lol.