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SN 3377569, barrel date 1-43, proofs on barrel, receiver, stock, all photographed.
Bayonet band, [front band] isnt blued, rest of the rifle seems original. Ive shown it before, but never disassembled, any idea about the band, its not overhaul marked.
RA03A3 pictures by AndrewG1957 - Photobucket
Thanks for looking, and comments welcome,,Ive been oiling it tonight.
Andy
Andy, very nice! Thanks for sharing.
Individual parts are not overhaul marked other than the stock. Original arsenal trim was all blued bands for duration of production (never say never), parkerized is likely a replacement part versus signs of a rebuild for the rifle if all else is correct and no rebuild stamp on stock wrist.
the front sight base looks odd to me. It appears to be a 1903 type. Never saw one with a pin in the middle though.
Some acetone might remove those cosmoline stains on the receiver.
Nice rifle, hows the bore look?
regards,
Chief
nice rifle, great pics,
front sight, bayonet lug, and cocking rod are replacements.
likely field repair, not a rebuild. rifle has seen some sevice for sure.
cleaning with solvent will show that the brown is likely rust. of if your lucky, dried grease..hopefuly the later.
your pics show what iv been saying for years,
the correct color for Remington A3,s is light grey..under the wood line clearly shows this...
isnt green, brown, black ect, its light grey..thanks for sharing.
About the front sight, is it possible its a carry over from the RA M1903, as its early? RA used the 1903 parts up, I was told?
It is dried grease, not rust.
Its very early...Im not so sure its not correct?
Andy
Chuck, I think this is another example of what you are describing for color of the parkerization. You can see where the wood line is.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckindenver
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1850-1.jpg
I really love rifles with this kind of character! Looks like it has never been messed with and is probably exactly the way it left Remington in 1943. Very nice find, that one is a gem.
Heres some more pics for comparison.
Early RA M1903-A3 cartouches, and later RA M1903-A4 cartouches, note large and small bow trigger guards. different cocking pieces, and Im still not sure RA didnt use older RA M1903 parts when assembling the early 03-A3's, hence the cocking piece, and front sight...any other early 1943 A3's to compare it to?
A3 comp pictures by AndrewG1957 - Photobucket
Andy
I have an early A4 and the cocking piece is the same as yours.
Xarmor, is yours the earlier knurled, or later checkered on your A4? My 8-43 A4 is checkered, while the earlier 1-43 A3 is knurled..
A3boltstrikerJB pictures by AndrewG1957 - Photobucket
Check out the striker..beautifully blued, "R" marked striker.
Andy
Mine is Knurled, and the barrel is also dated 1-43! Maybe they were on the production line at the same time! I will try and get sme pics later today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandrew
Andy,
Serial number 3400987, 1-43 barrel also has the `03 front sight on it. When I asked about the front sight on the old CSP forum. I was told Remington DID use up left over `03 parts on early A3's. While not rare they are not too common either.
FWIW
Chuck
Is the assumption that the parkerized upper band marked "R" could not be original? Ive heard otherwise..and with the transitional 03 front sight, was RA never in the business of parking upper bands? Anyone else have an early RA like this, besides the pinned front sight?
Andy
I have an early 03A3, too -- serial number is 3,356,737 with a 12-42 barrel. Someday I'd like to get a Remington M1903 with a "later" serial number.
Hi Rick, are any of your early 03-A3's characteristics like mine?
Upper band? Blued, parked? Striker rod, knurled? Front sight, 03 type?
My striker rod isnt marked "R", only marked "4", an inspector?
Mix of blued, parked pieces, sear is blued, as is hand guard ring, if its transitional, perhaps RA used anything left over.
Andy
Garandrew, I have an 03a3 from 3-43, upper band and all other metal parts are blued. The barrel and receiver are the only parkerized metal. O cannot see the front site because at sometime in the rifles life a sight cover was installed, The stock has pins. All of the blued parts that I see a "R" marked, but mine is not quite as early as yours is.
FYI, my 1903A3 Remmy has 4-43 marked RA barrel, serial number 3,746,9XX. Everything with a stamp is R stamped except sear which has an "S" on right side just to the rear and slightly below the hole where it pins to the receiver. I don't see any letter on the trigger. The selector switch thing on the receiver is blued, I think. So is the firing pin. I wouldn't classify anything as light gray. Not sure how to know if it has been rearsenaled. Bayo lug band, stacking swivel band, rear sling swivel, and front sling band I think are blued. No letter on buttplate that I can find (didn't remove it). All bolt parts except front end of pin are parked, pin is blued. Knob on back of bolt assembly looks like Garandrew's except mine has more circumferential grooved through the serrations. Mine has six total circumferential grooves, three through the serrations, the fourth at front edge of serrations, and two more on the taper. Trigger guard/floorplate assembly is blued stamped steel, as is the mag follower. Front sight mark is R marked, sight blade is A marked.
Stock is an A4 config with no proof marks our cartouches, full pistol grip. Bolt handle cutout has what I think is a serif K. Previous inquiries suggest this may have been a GI surplus stock sold as surplus and thus no markings? Does that seem plausible? It's a beautiful piece of walnut and does not show signs of sanding. Nice lumber but too bad it doesn't have the original stock, as this would be a REALLY top shelf un-messed-with RA 1903A3. Has a lot of chunky dried BLO on some metal, which I think I'll clean off so I can have a good look at metal finish (blue vs park). Doesn't look like it's been out of the wood very much because there is a lot of grime under there.
Shop owner says and old dude traded it toward a Garand. Maybe he was an old DCM shooter and fitted the pistol grip stock for better ergonomics? I have been told this was done a lot back when 1903A3 were still being used in competition but I wouldn't know.
Chilly
Also, front sight has two pins: a small pin appears to retain the blade, a larger pin retains the base to the barrel.
Wonder if it could have been a restored sporter? Many rifles just had the stock cut, maybe sight changed, bands taken off, etc. It could have been restored with original parts, correct but from mixed period.
Or perhaps a rifle that saw use, and then was repaired at the depot level, without rebuild.
snipershot1944
Dave, this rifles been together along time.
I dont think its restored.
Andy
When you say "front band" what are you talking about? The cap with the bayo lug? My 4-43 RA bayo lug cap/band thing is blued. On closer inspection I wonder if the handguard rings might be parked? Too crusty with dried BLO to tell right now. Handguard rings have no letters but the stacking swivel and front sling swivel are "R" marked. The screws are heavily staked so I don't think they've been removed ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandrew
Yes Chilly, the upper band, [bayonet stud], on mine is parked.
Andy
OK, my front band is blued. And after a good hosing with carb cleaner I'd say the handguard bands are parked. The park didn't look light gray so I scrubbed it quite a lot with carb cleaner and a scotchbrite pad. Started to look kind of gray but then I realized it was just bare metal starting to show through, not gray park. Fortunately I only did that to the barrel, receiver and bolt before I stopped. The upside: no more ugly tool marks on my barrel. The bad news: I can just barely see the flaming bomb and barrel date on the barrel anymore.
While I cannot say for early Remington manufactured 03-A3's, my early, unissued Smith-Corona has a parked upper band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandrew
Don
ok.
reciever, barrel, safety, and front sight base are grey phosphate, the rest is black oxide, {blue} any other would be replacement, or repaired.
on Remington A3,s start to end of production.
the barrels will always be darker then the receiver, they are not hardened, and not Nickle steel,
soft C steel will always turn out darker.
example.
if i put a barreled receiver in my tank that has been stripped and prepped in the white.
the barrel always turns out darker then the receiver...
as for the cocking rod, its a replacement, plain and simple.
front sight??maybe, i have seen some 1903 Remington barrels on early A3,s Jan to March dates. i have a couple from drill rifles, ill loook and see of they have 03 sights.
my only sugestion is,
if it is indeed a 1903 barrel, why modify the base pin? it would work fine the way it is.
only if you put a A3 sight on an 03 barrel would you need to modify the key.
its very common for the cocking rod, bayonet lug, and front sight to be replaced on a rifle, bayonet training is hard on them.
and a cocking rod is a normal part to wear.
I recently acquired an early Remington 03-A3 with barrel date of 1-43 and serial number in the 33382xx (Yes, I know a lot of folks hate the dreaded "x") range which puts it very close to the rifle being discussed. My rifle also has what appears to be a modified 1903 front sight base (fixed and moveable) that is pinned in place exactly like the one shown. Given that the rifle shows no sign of having been refinished , and given that the pin and both parts of the based have not been disturbed and since the blade is blue and it's pin has not been moved nothing seems to be a replacement. And like the rifle pictured, my rifle has all parts (furniture) blued except for the bayonet lug which is "R" marked and never appears to have been replaced.
The rifle had not been apart for many, many years prior to my obtaining it and from my observation I do not think that any parts are replaced given their matching wear and condition. Overall condition of the two rifles is remarkably similiar except that mine has a blued "R" marked front sight cover that had lots of filth under it where it had gathered dust and dirt for years.
So, we may have some indication that Remington used up some 1903 front sight parts and perhaps all furniture was not blued on these very early 03A3 rifles. For now, at least, that's my vote on the subject. Perhaps John Beard has some insights here!
Early Remington '03-A3's were indeed fitted with olive parkerized bayonet bands. The blued bayonet band didn't appear until much later.Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Also, early Remington '03-A3's were indeed fitted with 3-piece '03 front sights (base, stud, and blade). But, not the first ones. The first '03-A3's were fitted with 2-piece '03-A3 front sights. The 3-piece front sight appeared very briefly upon cessation of '03 production (using up leftover parts).
Your rifle, S/N 33382xx is a bit early for a 3-piece '03 front sight. Please double-check the serial number. Thanks!
Hope this helps.
J.B.
Thank you JB, I guess it sort of makes my rifle that much better.
Plus, it was my wifes 18th anniversery gift to me, we bumped into it at Kittery Trading Post..in Maine about 5 years ago...$750.00
i dissagree...
the most replaced part on an A3 is the bayonet lug, and the trigger guard.
the bayonet lug stripps easy, and or got trashed during training..
every early A3 iv handled has had a blue bayonet lug.
the trigger guards were bent easy, and cracked behind the front guard screw.
how many times do you thing these rfles were taken apart during basic training, or regular service?
how many time have you stripped or found a stripped A3 bayonet lug??
id say a good 50% of the A3,s have buggered screw holes, some worse then others.
anyone who,s tried to install a new bayonet lug on an A3 can tell you what a bear that screw is to get in the hole just right for it to catch.
doesnt it seem od that the rest of your rifle has blued parts and the only part thats parked is the bayonet lug??they were made by the same company in the same plant.
Nice rifle, Garandrew. I have 03-A3 #3372037 that came from DCM in 1963. It has the same front sight as yours-2 piece base, pin in dovetail. Bbl date RA 7-42. No sign of any cuts for the 03 rear sight base on barrel.
It came from DCM with a scant grip stock and large bow triggerguard. All bands are gray, rear sight assy. and bolt are blue.
Hope some of this info is useful.
Jim
John:
The serial of my rifle is 3386416 so I was a little off and so I now provide the full number. Thanks for the information on the bayonet lug but I still have to wonder about the three piece front sight not being correct on both of the rifles mentioned in this stream of messages.
Also, I still have a bunch of new replacement 03-A3 barrels bought way back from the old DCM (something like .98 each) and they all have the two piece A3 front sight assembly and some of the dates run quite late.
So, like a lot of this stuff, there's always more to learn and in the end we may agree or agree to disagree but it's still fun.
David
Perhaps I was not clear. The 3-piece front sight is indeed totally correct for your rifle (with revised serial number) and Garandrew's rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Hope this helps.
J.B.
David our rifles are very similiar. Does yours have the earlier unboxed FJA cartouche without the RA to the left of the ordnance symbol?
Are there any letters stamped into the side of the stock, near the buttplate, like US?
Andy
Andy:
Indeed, they seem to be very much alike in nearly every aspect.
The stock is, of course a pinned one, on the left side is the ordnance symbol, a boxed FJA and no other markings such as the RA or any other marks on the butt area. The Circled P along with a W is present behind the trigger guard and the usual mix of Remington sub inspectors marks ahead of the guard. The tip of the stock has an ordnance bomb. No other external marks that I can see.
The rifle came to me out of a family that had it for many years and has a nice WW2 vintage 1907 sling with steel parts and a brass oiler in the butt.
I had been looking for an early 03A3 for some time that had escaped the rebuild process and was very pleased to find this one locally at an extremely good price.
David
John,
Would my SN 3518619 be more appropriately adorned with an olive or a blued bayonet band? I have both on hand.
I might add that the olive band was on the rifle when I bought it. I put a blued band on because I was told that would more correct at the time.
Here are some data harvested from original or mostly original rifles:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi Shooter
S/N 3490611 - Parkerized bayonet band
S/N 3506719 - Parkerized bayonet band
S/N 3511156 - Parkerized bayonet band
S/N 3518619 - Your rifle
S/N 3518749 - Parkerized bayonet band
S/N 3524323 - Parkerized bayonet band
S/N 3532351 - Parkerized bayonet band
Does this answer your question? :thup:
Hope this helps. :wave:
J.B.
Would a very early (Jan 43 barrel) A4 have the parkerized front band also?
Mine has the parked band..thats what sparked this thread..with the front sight. My barrel is 1-43 Andy
Thanks Andy, I was wondering if the 1903a4 was the same. All of the ones that I have seen had the blackish blue bayonet bands unless they had seen a rebuild. When did the blue bands start on the 03a3/03a4?
My A4 is later..8-43, as was my other A3 I sold..5-43..they both had black oxide finished upper bands. If you study the phosphate color on the earlier bands, its exactly a match to the receiver, on mine anyway. Had to be RA finish. Andy
Thanks, John. It's too bad my A3's stock was thrashed when I got it. It's turning out to have been more original than I had thought.