A few things from the John Garand Match at Camp Perry.

First, check your clips. Don’t JUST do it by sticking the clip down inside the receiver with no rounds, that won’t tell you if the clip will jam. There were cases where Greek clips jammed up and wouldn’t load.with live rounds, but had slipped into the receivers well without rounds before and after. If you seriously compete with the Garand, ensure your clips will work by firing and marking them to ensure you have good clips and/or using dummy rounds to ensure they will function and I’d suggest you DON’T use Greek clips for a match.

It rained during the match this year at the nationals. Stocks that had been finished with BLO SWELLED UP and that gave trigger problems for some folks. It caused harder trigger pulls when the top rear of the trigger began mashing into the relief cut between the rear bedding pads for the rear of the trigger housing. That can also cause unintentional doubles.

IF your trigger seems to get harder during shooting, and a swelled stock isn’t causing it, what may be going on is the trigger and/or hammer pins are backing out while you shoot. The emergency fix is to take the trigger housing out and knock the pins back in place. The long term fix is to get replacement pins that are full sized, maybe peen the holes of a loose fitting trigger housing and/or replace the trigger housing.

Good advice Gus. when we go to a Garand match, we always use USGI clips, even if they give us clips, we use our own. the Greek clips we use for practice/fun shooting. it does seem to help a little the put them through a tumbler for a few hours.

CRB

I was interested in your comments about pins. How would you describe the effort required to remove a properly sized pin? I have at least one that only requires light pressure from a hand held punch or similar device to remove it. No pounding required. Would you say that is too loose? --TIA

I shot the AM relay and my rifle as soaked. I kept it covered while I was in the pits & while I scored so it was dry right up until I fired. The water did not have much time to soak into the wood. I cleaned it thoroughly later that day. My stock is finished with tung oil & I noiced it did not even raise a feather. Is that typical of tung oil? I used the CMP clips which I believe were new & stamped AGE & they functioned fine.

And if you wear glasses you are drilled and tapped trying to shoot rapid fire with an M-1 in the rain...

"If you wear glasses" uh, aren't "eyes and ears" required? Gus- any chance of you coming out to the Western Games in October? Be nice to see you helping out the Left Coast guys.

It also is a good idea to take allen wrench of proper size and check tightness of the allen screw that secures the front sight. While you are at it be sure to check the rear sight tension according to the FM and be sure to check the tightness of the gas cylinder plug. I have had all three to work loose on be during matches! Nothing like had earned expierence.

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

"If you wear glasses" uh, aren't "eyes and ears" required? Gus- any chance of you coming out to the Western Games in October? Be nice to see you helping out the Left Coast guys.

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Dude.....YOU shoot a Garand (or M14) in a pouring rain with glasses on and consistently get the bullet in roughly the same Area Code as the target! Then you can report back and tell the rest of us how to do it since my personal solution was to buy an AR and/or pack-up and go home!

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Originally Posted by John Kepler

Dude.....YOU shoot a Garand (or M14) in a pouring rain with glasses on and consistently get the bullet in roughly the same Area Code as the target! Then you can report back and tell the rest of us how to do it since my personal solution was to buy an AR and/or pack-up and go home!

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I shoot relay 5
In the rain
Wiped lens between shots
99 slow

I have shot locally in the rain. I wear glasses, and what works for me is to use a non fogging solution for the lenses (something I started in my younger Hockey days, and has carried over to my JCG shooting) Also wearing a hat with a brim. I wear my USMC cover. If my dope holds, than the majority of my rapid fire groups are where I want them. Rain or shine though it seems I would always like those groups tighter!

Semper Fi, Rob

Fine....and your rapid? Careful now.....I was in the pits on your Relay and didn't see SQUAT on the low-end for score!

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Originally Posted by Sgt. Rob P.

I have shot locally in the rain. I wear glasses, and what works for me is to use a non fogging solution for the lenses (something I started in my younger Hockey days, and has carried over to my JCG shooting)

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And plain old "99 and 44/100ths Percent Pure" Ivory bath soap works better than any of the commercial anti-fog agents (including Rain-X which was one of our racing sponsors!), and one inexpensive cake is a lifetime supply!

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Also wearing a hat with a brim. I wear my USMC cover. If my dope holds, than the majority of my rapid fire groups are where I want them. Rain or shine though it seems I would always like those groups tighter!

Semper Fi, Rob

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Bud...there's rain, and then there's RAIN! Saturday was the later variety!

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Originally Posted by John Kepler

Fine....and your rapid? Careful now.....I was in the pits on your Relay and didn't see SQUAT on the low-end for score!

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91....I fought with my self on 1 or 2 down on rapid.
Did 2 and had a group 6 o'clock 9 ring

I HAVE shot an M-1 in the rain, in a leg match, although it has been many years, perhaps 40 ago. Kepler, dude (not normally a word I use except when searching for fancy western ranches...), I agree TOTALLY on the superiority of the AR in the rain, at least as far as seeing the iron sights. The M-1/M-1A will throw water all over your glasses. Problem is NOT fogging - rather, massive water droplets. And hats help little with the M-1/M-14 types in rapid fire. Now with the AR-15.... No op rod to throw water, bolt internal. Get a good boonie hat down over your rear sight and you will be OK in RF. And I agree with the man who just pointed it out that TECHNICALLY you are supposed to have eye protection but in those bad old days I saw people with good vision shoot bare-eyed. Back then it was recommended, NOT required. So point taken on that. But... I would bet one or two JCG shooters with good eyes might've pulled their anteojos off during prone rapid in the rain.

I wonder if the old-timers who wore a campaign hat (smokey the bear hat) while shooting at Perry (and elsewhere) maybe didn't know something that the rest of us don't. They keep the rain out of your eyes (as well as any hat does, anyway), and they keep the sun off your neck.

Just because I didn't shoot in Saturdays rain in the JCG, DOESN'T mean I haven't done it before! I have, numerous times with both my Garand and M14 (including the miserable rain-shortened 1998 NTI....I bought my AR right out of Frank White's hands still dripping water at the end of the match!). Having done so on multiple occasions makes me wonder about those that poo-poo how difficult it actually is...with or without glasses!

A Booney Hat helps, but as Phil pointed out, it's not the rear sight that's the issue per se, it's the tea-cup or so of high-velocity water that gets blasted into your face from the bolt and the op-rod cycling every time you fire a shot! Also, water surface tension and small holes (as in your rear sight aperture!) can make for a rather "opaque" view of your target, and no wide-brimmed hat is going to keep the water out of it after the first shot! Oh....and did I mention that the water being tossed off the rifle into your face HURTS?

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Originally Posted by John Kepler

Just because I didn't shoot in Saturdays rain in the JCG, DOESN'T mean I haven't done it before! I have, numerous times with both my Garand and M14 (including the miserable rain-shortened 1998 NTI....I bought my AR right out of Frank White's hands still dripping water at the end of the match!). Having done so on multiple occasions makes me wonder about those that poo-poo how difficult it actually is...with or without glasses!

A Booney Hat helps, but as Phil pointed out, it's not the rear sight that's the issue per se, it's the tea-cup or so of high-velocity water that gets blasted into your face from the bolt and the op-rod cycling every time you fire a shot! Also, water surface tension and small holes (as in your rear sight aperture!) can make for a rather "opaque" view of your target, and no wide-brimmed hat is going to keep the water out of it after the first shot! Oh....and did I mention that the water being tossed off the rifle into your face HURTS?

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No POO POO here
I was very shocked at my belly shooting in M1 and M1A

I wear a Boonie-hat rain or shine, keeps the rain off my shooters and the sun off my aged pate!!!

Good point on the BLO Gus! That's why all my Garands wear Tung-Oil or nothing at all!!

:madsmile:

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Originally Posted by RBruce

I was interested in your comments about pins. How would you describe the effort required to remove a properly sized pin? I have at least one that only requires light pressure from a hand held punch or similar device to remove it. No pounding required. Would you say that is too loose? --TIA

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Sorry I have taken so long to answer. I picked up a NASTY viral cold at Camp Perry and worked really sick for about four days. I'm really only beginning to feel better tonight. When I got back home to Virginia, our AC wasn't working and that has taken two trips by the repair follks to get that fixed, which was finally resolved today. Through in the fact I had to rush to get a couple things done for the gun show this last weekend and do the show................well, things have been a might busy around here. Grin.

A properly sized trigger and hammer pin should be able to be pushed out with the correct sized punch, by hand. You shouldn't need a hammer to pound them out.

There are two things that normally cause loose trigger pins. The first is the main portion of the pin has been worn out of round or worn out of spec. The second is the hole in the trigger housing for the head of the pin has worn oversize. This last is the most difficult to fix. You sometimes can peen over the hole to close it up and make it a tight fit for the head of the pin, but sometimes that won't work and you HAVE to be very careful doing it or you may bend or crack the trigger housing.

So I always suggest getting a NOS trigger and or hammer pin first and many times that is all you need. HTH

I shot relay 5 in the downpour part of the rainstorm. Nothing says fun quite like a river of water running down your crack and pooling in your crotch. hahaha

I managed to say Hi to the Gunny and win a little medal as well. It was a nice time.

There was at least one guy there with a CAI commerical Garand and a guy with an ultra rare 7mil s/n gun. Neither made it past the trigger checks.

My 2.3 mil Winnie ran perfectly, it's lovely original green park sluffed off raindrops as well as it has been doing it since WWII.

Anyone tried putting Rain X or soap on the top of the bolt to break the surface tension?

The Parkerizing/grease/oil surface of those parts already provides a supremely hydrophobic surface, and a lot of the water DOES roll off (into the interior of the rifle....but that's another issue!), but a lot isn't all, and something like Rain-X....assuming you could get to actually work on the rifle (highly doubtful without COMPLETE de-greasing of the metal....the stuff has to have a CLEAN surface to stick), surfactants (Rain-X isn't one BTW!) will allow the metal to hold MORE water, not less. At the end of the day, I doubt it would work any better than what's already there!