Gun Shop Owner Arrested

The attorney for a Mobile gun shop owner charged with illegally selling firearms is speaking out on the arrest of his client.
Police and federal agents arrested Larry McCoy after raiding his store Thursday. McCoy is charged with selling a gun to a convicted felon and falsifying records.
Larry McCoy is the owner of Larry's Gun Shop.
Officials with the U.S Department of Justice and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said on April 11, McCoy sold a semi-automatic shotgun to a convicted felon who was working as a government informant.
Mobile Police Chief Phillip Garrett said, "I take it as a very serious set of offenses. I take the whole situation as very serious."
A federal grand jury indicted McCoy on nine felony and misdemeanor counts.
The indictment said McCoy also falsified records, selling guns to people while listing the name of someone else as the buyer.
Chief Garrett said, "What brought this investigation, or initiated the investigation, was complaints from people, the public, that their children had come home with assault-type weapons, that were under the age of 18, that had brought the weapons home and said they got it from this gun shop."
Clara Carley said she's McCoy's sister-in-law.
Carley said McCoy "keeps meticulous records. This is a bunch of baloney."
Bob Clark is McCoy's attorney.
Clark said, "I know the government works slow, but this is kind of ridiculous, isn't it? I mean, he's been selling guns since 2007 and they haven't done anything and now they're suddenly, he's some kind of a menace or whatever?"
Carley added, "He dots his 'I's' and crosses his 'T's, so this is hogwash."
McCoy pleaded not guilty to the charges.
Chief Garrett said if he's found guilty on the felony counts alone, McCoy could face up to 30 years in prison.


Mobile Gun Shop Owner Arrested - Alabama Mobile Guns Tobacco - WKRG.com

Well--Except for the fact that he was true billed by the GJ we dont know much about the validity of the charges. But is seems apparent that the poor guy has a nit wit for an attorney.

I have two ways to look at this.

If indeed this guy was dumb enough to do this, he should spend 30 years with bubba. If he was railroaded somehow, there should be a way to clear him.

Personally I think most gun dealers err on the side of being too cautious. I have been at Gun Shows and see someone who doesn't look real smart trying to buy a gun. The dealer will politely "run the guy off".

Most dealers are smart, they know where their futures lie. It ain't doing something dishonest.

Ancient history. I once knew a gun-shop owner. I bought stuff off of him because he gave me damn-good deals on some stuff I collected (and thereby generating "legitimate" cover for his other, more lucrative, less "legitimate" transactions....I was a lot younger and dumber back then!). Having said that....the guy was dirty as hell! First (and last!) time in my entire life that I saw a gun being sold that I KNEW was going to go out and shoot somebody (Biker in a walking-cast because of the .32 slug in his leg buying a "minimum-legal" cut-down shotgun that was one of the shop-owner's "specialty items" for a little self-declared "pay-back"...the shot-gun I saw being purchased was immediately "stolen" with the appropriate paperwork filed with the authorities and found next to a blood-pool in Cleveland three weeks later!). Guns the guy was selling to equally unsavory characters had a distressing habit of being found next to bodies in New York City, and he was definitely on the ATF's radar.

Then he got busted. The bust was de-facto entrapment, complete petty technical chicken-guano.....and nothing more or less than justice! He was guilty as sin even though he was arrested and convicted on what was basically a trumped-up charge....two wrongs ending up making a right! So ya just never know!

Everyone knew who "Alan" was. He was at every gun show and the guy was hyper. He literally ran from person to person buying pistols. He never had a table he just trolled the line at the entrance for folks bringing guns to sell to dealers(yoou know the guys). When he finially tried to sell one of the dealers one of his own stolen guns he finially got on someones list. Read about him in the newspaper a few weeks later and no one was too surprised..

Well let's not tar Mr McCoy with the same brush. Mayor Bloombast*rds's "undercover agents". were good at what they did, and unless a dealer can consult his "crystal ball" after making the usual NICS checks, it's difficult to catch ALL of the perps.

Note; a CONVICTED FELON working as a GOVERNMENT INFORMANT!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by John Sukey

Well let's not tar Mr McCoy with the same brush. Mayor Bloombast*rds's "undercover agents". were good at what they did, and unless a dealer can consult his "crystal ball" after making the usual NICS checks, it's difficult to catch ALL of the perps.

Note; a CONVICTED FELON working as a GOVERNMENT INFORMANT!:rolleyes:

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Then riddle me this Batman.....just how DOES a convicted felon legally get approved to buy a firearm WITHOUT some sort of illegal collusion on the part of the transacting dealer? Inquiring minds want to know!

As for the rest.....remember John, Jesus had a conspiracy limited to just 12 men hand-picked by God...and one of them was a government-paid informant!

I think its safe to say that all of us strongly support 2nd amendment rights while we want to rid our ranks of those "gun people" who do illegal acts and things that are just plain stupid or wrong. We all have met them - we move three lanes over when they show up at the range or we don't go near their gun shops. None of us on this forum know the details and the real evidence in this case, just what is in the news. I grew up in Mobile and I used to be a Mobile Police Officer many years ago. But I will tell you that gun ownership rights are respected and strongly supported by all law enforcement in the Mobile area. Its a good area for owning guns. When I lived in the area, it was one of the easiest areas in the country to get a concealed handgun carry permit (local sheriff must issue). I will not jump on the arrest of just one (of several hundred gun dealers) in the area with the claim that he was set up.

I will back my brother gun owners, but I will not back the dirt bag that endangers us all. My opinion is that as a group we should do alot more self-policing so that the government is not tempted to... (Flame me if you want.....)

I'm curious as to how this case plays out and what evidence is provided in court. Thats why we still have public trials by a jury of peers in this country. Down there, you would have a hard time finding a jury made up of non-gun owners.

I agree. Many of us gun owners tend to feel we need to stick together against the anti-gun looney fringe, but the fact is that some of "us" are not nice guys. Not only do a lot of people use guns in crime, but some sleazy dealers sell them the guns in the first place. I don't want an otherwise honest dealer to be put out of business because he left the period off "Jr", but anyone who sells guns to underage kids or to people with records, is not a good guy. The report sounds legit, no matter what his lawyer says.

Also, the police had to use a real felon to make the buy, and you know pretty well that the dealer never ran the NCIS check. If the guy had not been a convicted felon, the lawyer could claim that there was no law violation, since he didn't sell a gun to a felon.

Jim

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Originally Posted by John Kepler

Then riddle me this Batman.....just how DOES a convicted felon legally get approved to buy a firearm WITHOUT some sort of illegal collusion on the part of the transacting dealer? Inquiring minds want to know!

As for the rest.....remember John, Jesus had a conspiracy limited to just 12 men hand-picked by God...and one of them was a government-paid informant!

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the convicted felon LIES on the government form. and uses a fake I.D. That answer your question Robin?

Given some of their past screw-ups, I trust the ATF about as far as I can throw their headquarters. You do NOT know the particulars of the case and yet you have already convicted the dealer. Thats up to the courts.:rolleyes:

I am reminded ot the ATF's idea that private sales at gun shows are supplying criminals with ALL of their guns.:madsmile:

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Originally Posted by John Sukey

the convicted felon LIES on the government form. and uses a fake I.D. That answer your question Robin?

Given some of their past screw-ups, I trust the ATF about as far as I can throw their headquarters. You do NOT know the particulars of the case and yet you have already convicted the dealer. Thats up to the courts.:rolleyes:

I am reminded ot the ATF's idea that private sales at gun shows are supplying criminals with ALL of their guns.:madsmile:

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That's one way....though it's a bit tough to do with NICS....it also then becomes something that no Grand Jury, and without putting too fine a point on it, particularly one in Alabama, is going to "True Bill"! Q.E.D.

As for the rest....I hear ya John; know and largely agree with what you're saying....but sometimes they DO get it right, and a cigar is just a cigar!

The trator of Jesus was part of God,s plan, necessary to have him killed. (just a bit of history).

I really think gun sellers have to be real careful, with the new administration we have. I know many guys who sell at shows, regularly, 3-4 tables, inventory changes constently. No paper work. The ax will come down on these people! Just for the record; I think anyone ought to be able to sell personal property if they choose. Making a profit is beside the point.

Selling a firearm to a violent felon isn't in anyone's best interest. The Constitution was never meant to be a Suicide Pact!

BTW, what Burning Bush did God use to tell you what His plan actually was? Theology isn't history!

Now hold on a second. I have bought a few rifles at a Gun Show table that I filled out NO papers for.

When I picked one out, said "I'll take it", whipped out my cold cash, those guys said "Oh, no paperwork on that one, it's from my PERSONAL collection".

Now, either the guy was telling the truth (A TRUTHER) or he just could look at my face and tell that I was an honest so and so. But since I do have an 03 FFL, I requested HIS name and address. Just in case...... Matter of fact, when I asked, one guy he said it was his wife's rifle (suuuuure) so he gave me her name and address. Trusting soul, ain't he.

I just assume (you know what that gets us) that everyone is as honest a guy as I am.

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Originally Posted by 0311Shooter

Now hold on a second. I have bought a few rifles at a Gun Show table that I filled out NO papers for.

When I picked one out, said "I'll take it", whipped out my cold cash, those guys said "Oh, no paperwork on that one, it's from my PERSONAL collection".

Now, either the guy was telling the truth (A TRUTHER) or he just could look at my face and tell that I was an honest so and so. But since I do have an 03 FFL, I requested HIS name and address. Just in case...... Matter of fact, when I asked, one guy he said it was his wife's rifle (suuuuure) so he gave me her name and address. Trusting soul, ain't he.

I just assume (you know what that gets us) that everyone is as honest a guy as I am.

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Ok, let me get this straight so we can rack up all the charges....

The wife was the owner of the rifle but you paid him. Well, it may have been a consignment, but sounds to me like she was employing him to sell the rifle. Who signed the receipt? Well, that makes him his wife's employee... Now, if she didnt have him on the clock, the Federal labor board has a violation... if he was on the clock, did she send in the social security and unemployment/FICA tax??? wait, if he was on the clock and he was selling his own firearms too, does that mean that the FICA taxes are a business deduction?????? Maybe she was just paying him a straight commission on making the sale for her... but who has the legal liability for damages if the weapon malfunctions and creates a tort law case (her as the owner or him as the seller) ? Does the receipt show any sales tax for the local community? Now if you put in on your FFL log and it wasn't on his, what happens when the third round out the barrel strikes the local ATF agent in the butt while he is fishing? Or does that count just on the second Saturday of the week during that gunshow???
:madsmile:

(0311shooter, not trying to pick or attack you - it was just a good set up)

Guys, seriously, I am not complaining... but lets look are what we put on this thread. We all have seen things that are NQR (Not Quite Right). Alot of us have also seen "Big Brother" do things that were a bit over the line. There are good gun owners (and dealers) and there are a few that should never, NEVER be allowed around any kind of weapons stronger than a rubber band. When the founding fathers set the rules in place, they deems it necessary that 10 guilty guys walk free to prevent 1 innocent guy from being wrongly convicted. In this case, none of us weren't there and we have not seen the exact details - just the always "trustworthy", never dramatized news report.
:slap:

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Originally Posted by Tired Retired

In this case, none of us weren't there and we have not seen the exact details - just the always "trustworthy", never dramatized news report.
:slap:

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Of course there's that pesky little Grand Jury indictment....or are you accusing the media of mis-reporting that?

Mr. Kepler: Have you never heard the saying that any good prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich?
Just because the guy was indicted doesn't mean a damn thing. The defendant doesn't appear before the grand jury. Neither does his attorney. The Grand Jury hears only one side of the story...the prosecution's side. Let's see how this shakes out in court before we make any judgements, okay?

LOL, John, I really wanted to say above all this...

My comment was actually aimed at mainstream news media in general.... we all have seen seen a "left tilt" and a few bends with added drama when it comes to gun stories...

I knew COP Garrett when he was a precinct Captain, went to police academy with his son, and I have had a few dealings with the lawyer(???) in court cases. And a key person for the news dept for that channel has been called a bit of a "drama princess" by some... Guess that was straight up reporting to shock the lady in the car into a spontaneous statement by informing her that her brother-in-law was indicted... Its really unfair for me to say more....

Like I implied in my earlier posts... the grand jury may have found some fire where we are just seeing smoke....

I'm just going to follow the events like everyone else from this point and not comment further... out.

oppsssss (edit function timed out).... should read "stay above all this.... not "say"....

OF course this is all still "sub-judice" and subject to trial....but by the same token, it isn't, based on the facts extant, "smoke and mirrors" either. There IS enough evidence to put it front of a jury, and a quick peruse of any law journal will show that in spite of the rhetoric that states a Prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.....once a Grand Jury indicts, the Home Team wins over 90% of the time! I'm an engineer, I play with numbers......we build multi-million dollar projects on a 90% confidence-level.

As a firearms owner, the LAST thing I want muddying the water is a dirty dealer (not to be confused with a merely stupid dealer). At this stage of the game, all a trial is actually going to do is determine if the guy is truly dirty, or just dumb. In the case I was inadvertently involved with, the dealer was dirty as sin from several different directions, and tried to stay out of jail by claiming he was stupid, but honest....which were two afflictions my old buddy Bill transparently never quite had, and why he ended up doing 3 years in a Federal Golf-Course Maintenance Academy!

I guess my problem is that I bought my first guns when all that was needed was the money to pay for them. I personally think what needs to be done is to find out why this dealer can sell to Alabamians and there is no problem, but when they go to NY they wind up next to dead body's. It is a mystery.
Bob

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seems apparent that the poor guy has a nit wit for an attorney.

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The lawyer making a statement saying that his client has been selling guns since 2007 and the feds are just making an issue of this stuff now. What was the point of that? So the cops didn't bust this guy right after he committed the lawbreaking so he's off the hook? What is this lawyer nine years old?

Would think less than a couple of years for the feds to build a decent case of evidence against some wrongdoer is reasonable.

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I bought my first guns when all that was needed was the money to pay for them

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Well . . . almost . . . Even back in 1962, there was paperwork to complete. I would take scissors and cut out the little coupon sized form at the back of my father's American Legion magazine. From Stalingrad to Normandy the German KAR98 Mauser Rifle $14.95 with $5.00 shipping via U.S. Mail parcel post.

Form questions included . . . Name . . .Address . . .City . . State . . . Zone
Number of Mauser rifles wanted. After that, things got serious . . . A person was required to check the tiny box next to a YES or NO answer. This was crucial!

First question . . . Are you over the age 21? YES!!! (though I was really age 15)

Second question . . . Are you Insane? uuuuhhhh NO!!!

That was it . . . Into the envelope went the little form along with a Money Order gotten from the corner store for $19.95 in full payment. Would mail the all important article up the street on a telephone pole mounted postal box in time for the 4:30 p.m. daily pickup.

Within a month or less . . . the mailman would leave a long box on the front porch. There was the great bolt action German WW2 Mauser.

In my case it was an Enfield No.5 Carbine....and I was JUST 14 (though on the flip-side, my Dad knew ALL about it....I wasn't "flying solo"!)! Mowed lawns all summer and helped my Dad paint the house to get the scratch. Ah yes....the "Olde Days" of buying from Klein's in Chicago! BTW, I've STILL got that Enfield!

Some of thse questions are just plain silly
Have you ever renounced your citizenship? DUH:madsmile:

John K. "burning bush"? I think that is Jewish history, not Christian. Yes, I know one follows the other. Anyway I think my statement is from the Bible. If not I think it does make sense, to have his "son die for man's sins", he had to "set it up", so to speak. If nothing else the Bible is history.

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Originally Posted by Dave

John K. "burning bush"? I think that is Jewish history, not Christian. Yes, I know one follows the other. Anyway I think my statement is from the Bible. If not I think it does make sense, to have his "son die for man's sins", he had to "set it up", so to speak. If nothing else the Bible is history.

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To begin....it ISN'T history, it's theology....words mean things and the two are no-where NEAR the same thing. If you insist on it being history, then you have to play by historical rules, meaning that there has to be things like written records, multiple sources and corroboration. There are five and only five figures mentioned in the Bible that have historical corroboration....Ramses II, King Nebakanezer, King Herrod, Caesar Augustus, and Emperor Tiberius...the rest have the same historical validity as Obewan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, and Princess Leia! History relies on records and documents....theology requires faith!

Theologically, the only time God spoke directly to Man after the Garden was to Moses via a Burning Bush. Got it? Oh, and if you read your Bible....it wasn't God that corrupted Judas....it was Satan, remember him?

press account excerted from al.com:

"Both Mobile police and agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives participated in the raid.

By Thursday afternoon, McCoy, of Bay Minette, pleaded not guilty to a nine-count indictment in U.S. District Court.

According to the indictment, McCoy sold a Saiga 12-gauge semi-automatic shotgun on April 11 to a person who had been convicted of a felony. That buyer, an informant working with the government, is not named in the indictment.

McCoy also failed to note the buyer's name, age and address on forms that licensed gun dealers are required to fill out, according to the indictment.

The indictment listed three other transactions in which McCoy is accused of failing to fill out required forms. They were:


■May 1, 2007, on the sale of a Zastava Model M70 rifle. A woman was falsely listed as the buyer.


■June 14, 2007, on the sale of a Saiga 7.62 x 39-caliber rifle. The same woman was listed as the buyer when she was not.


■June 27, 2007, on the sale of a Mossberg 12-gauge pistol grip shotgun. The same woman was falsely listed as the buyer.

McCoy's attorney, Robert F. "Cowboy Bob" Clark, said his client is innocent. He said federal investigators targeted Larry's Gun Shop and other firearms dealers.

"They set him up," Clark said.

He suggested that purchasers used "straw buyers" -- without McCoy's knowledge -- to make the transactions.
"

Note: Multiple offenses dating back to 2007. I thought this guy just opened up in 2007?? Sounds like the controlled buy was just the icing on the cake. i wouyld be very interesting to know for example: Did NCIS go tilt and Larry deliver the piece(on the controlled buy) anyway? What's his explantation for not filling out the 4473's?


I think "Cowboy Bob" will have his work cut out for him.

Regards,

Jim

The man is a menace.

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Originally Posted by Homer03

The man is a menace.

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No, he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, a right enjoyed by all US citizens.

The facts are thus:

1. He is charged with one count of transferring a firearm to a prohibited person, four counts of sale and delivery of firearms without making required records and four counts of making a false entry in records.
2. Even though he has not been convicted of any offense and he retains his FFL, he is not allowed to possess or come into close proximity with firearms. This means he cannot go to work and could not go home until all of his firearms were removed.
3. Larry and his wife were ordered by the lead ATF agent in the raid that they were not allowed to purchase new inventory or previously-owned firearms for resale.(I'm not even sure that this is legal.)
4. His business is crippled at a time when considerable funds will be needed for his legal defense.

I'll avoid the temptation of speculating as to the ulterior motives of this investigation, but I will say that I wouldn't wish what has happened to my father on anyone.

Those who wish to lend their support, financial or otherwise, may do so at SupportLarry.com.

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Originally Posted by dealerson

Those who wish to lend their support, financial or otherwise, may do so at SupportLarry.com.

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I had a friend. A gun dealer and an honest, honorable, ethical man. He had a guy that was trying to buy a handgun from him. He didn't like the look of the guy, the answers he was giving on the 4473, or the "vibes" he was getting from him. Even though the NICS came back "clean" on the guy (using "data" that belonged to an acquaintance of the twitch...the guy was a former mental patient with a violent rap-sheet and a "prohibited person" from a couple different directions)....he trusted his "gut", refused to sell the twitch the gun, and gave him his money back. A few hours later, the twitch returned to his shop with a Samurai sword and attacked him....ultimately skewering him to his office door through his chest like a bug in a display-case....all while looking at his Sig carry-piece sitting on his desk! On the edge of unconsciousness due to blood-loss, he remembered a POS .25 Raven pistol he'd taken in a trade earlier in the day that was still in his pocket and as he said it, "Knew he was going to live!". He put 5 in the humps 10-Ring, and then spent a month in a hospital...the hump traveled to the "Happy Hunting Ground" the next morning.

Him I sent money to, to help with his substantial medical bills after figuratively, taking one for the Team. I don't send money to people that sell guns to felons...EVER!

Once a year I get a table to move some things to make room for more. A half dozen times I've told people "No" when they suggest buying a weapon from me with an oout of state D. lic. or state, "well,I used to live here" or "this is where I living now"(meaning they really live in Minn.). Sometimes it soounds just like a setup. Whether it is or not, I err on caution. And I'm small potatoes. I am afraid thoough that a dealer who has a much larger stream of customers and no doubt plenty of whom may look "iffy" is going to get a little numb to the little voice in his head at times. In the case of Mr.Keplers aquintance the voice was pretty loud. Of coourse, the little voice has nothing to do with actual rules and regulations.

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Originally Posted by John Kepler

I had a friend. A gun dealer and an honest, honorable, ethical man. He had a guy that was trying to buy a handgun from him. He didn't like the look of the guy, the answers he was giving on the 4473, or the "vibes" he was getting from him. Even though the NICS came back "clean" on the guy (using "data" that belonged to an acquaintance of the twitch...the guy was a former mental patient with a violent rap-sheet and a "prohibited person" from a couple different directions)....he trusted his "gut", refused to sell the twitch the gun, and gave him his money back. A few hours later, the twitch returned to his shop with a Samurai sword and attacked him....ultimately skewering him to his office door through his chest like a bug in a display-case....all while looking at his Sig carry-piece sitting on his desk! On the edge of unconsciousness due to blood-loss, he remembered a POS .25 Raven pistol he'd taken in a trade earlier in the day that was still in his pocket and as he said it, "Knew he was going to live!". He put 5 in the humps 10-Ring, and then spent a month in a hospital...the hump traveled to the "Happy Hunting Ground" the next morning.

Him I sent money to, to help with his substantial medical bills after figuratively, taking one for the Team. I don't send money to people that sell guns to felons...EVER!

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Excellent! We look forward to your support.

Yeah.....well....I wouldn't exactly go and hold your breath if I were you. If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck....!

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Originally Posted by dealerson

No, he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, a right enjoyed by all US citizens.

The facts are thus:

1. He is charged with one count of transferring a firearm to a prohibited person, four counts of sale and delivery of firearms without making required records and four counts of making a false entry in records.
2. Even though he has not been convicted of any offense and he retains his FFL, he is not allowed to possess or come into close proximity with firearms. This means he cannot go to work and could not go home until all of his firearms were removed.
3. Larry and his wife were ordered by the lead ATF agent in the raid that they were not allowed to purchase new inventory or previously-owned firearms for resale.(I'm not even sure that this is legal.)
4. His business is crippled at a time when considerable funds will be needed for his legal defense.

I'll avoid the temptation of speculating as to the ulterior motives of this investigation, but I will say that I wouldn't wish what has happened to my father on anyone.

Those who wish to lend their support, financial or otherwise, may do so at SupportLarry.com.

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One thing I learned many years ago is that "justice in this country is only as good as the money you pay for it."