Just got back from the Big Reno Show...

..so I just thought I'd give a review. I was there looking for Lee Enfield No.4s, so pardon me if I didn't notice any other firearms. I did note 5 or 6 LE No.4s I was interested in. I even found a LE No.4 with the cutoff and the A suffix, but I did not notice the Royal Cypher, ENFIELD or a date on the butt socket strap (still, the guy was asking $500 for it, and I could bargain him down...what do ya think?). SMLEs were present, if not abundant, but 1 gentleman had 4 nice examples of World War 1 vintage. If I had enough cash, I would have bought them all.

I do have one question. When did Long Branch and Savage stop (start???) making receivers with the British style bolthead release catch, and when were they using the No.4 Mk1 designation instead of the No.4 Mk1* desingation? I saw several examples that were obviously US or Canadian made, but did not have the * and had the bolthead release catch and, as I am a newbie, I do not know if this is a good or a bad thing lol.

One funny thing was that 1 of the seller had 2 wrapped No.4 Mk2s dating from 1952-53 , and he sold them to another seller for, I think $750. The new, proud owner is now selling them on his stall for $950....go figure.

The show was huge, and it took me 3 hours to go through it twice, since I managed to miss some lovely rifles on my first pass through. It would appear that almost any type of firearm was for sale (I was perturbed when a gentleman walked passed me with a deactivated rocket propelled grenade), and there were planty of stalls selling accessories. If anyone has any specific queistions, I will be going back tomorrow and Sunday.

Savage made approx. 130,000 +/- MkI's and Long Branch made approx. 18,000 +/- MkI's. The changeover from MkI to MkI* occurred in 1942.

That explains the 1942 date on the 2 examples I saw - thank you!

I was watching an auction that ended last week for a Savage MkI that ended up selling for $305.00 plus shipping. What are they asking for the two you saw in Reno? Do you recall if they were Savage or Long Branch?

I am going back tomorrow or Sunday and I will be sure to check for you. I believe the Savage was going for $350 (but I think I could bargain them down $50 with my polite English accent), but I do not remember seeing any Long Branchs. If only I could bargain them down on that trial No.4 - it was beautiful.

If that No.4 with the "A" suffix is there with the mag cut-off, check it out carefully. It sounds like an early trials rifle and $500 is not a bad price depending on condition. If it has markings on the left side butt socket, please buy it for me.................I need it for my collection :)

It did not, unfortunately :( All I noted was a serial number - there was no royal cypher, Enfield stamp or date. Besides, I only have enough money to get my own Lee Enfield lol

Seriously, you need to go check it out carefully. The trials are marked on the opposite (LHS) butt socket and there should be a cypher date and Enfield stamped there. It might also have been a "gasp, choke" a No.1 Mark VI, the holiest of holies!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IM001471-1.jpg

That's a blurred shot of my No.1 mark VI - trials are I believe marked in the same place

I looked vey carefully, and there was only a serial number, ending in A. Everything else about the rifle screamed trials rifle, but for the lack of the stamps (I double checked, honest, Guv'nor!)

Now all I need to do is work out which Lee Enfield I want (if it is still there, of course) and to see how far I can haggle down. It was interesting that many of the sellers with Lee Enfields didn't know anything about the rifles they were selling (1 gentleman didn't know that the 4 No.1 Mk.IIIs on his table were World War 1 vintage, even though it is clearly stamped on the butt stock strap of each 1), and I think their prices were a little (ok, slightly more than a little) inflated.

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

I looked vey carefully, and there was only a serial number, ending in A. Everything else about the rifle screamed trials rifle, but for the lack of the stamps (I double checked, honest, Guv'nor!)

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The moral of the story is, "the only purchase you regret is the one you don't make."

What you saw was probably a rifle built with trials rifle parts at Fazackerly in 1940/41. The left over parts from Enfield were sent there to be used up in starting their production. As has been discussed here before those rifles had A suffix serial numbers to designate the use of non-standard (ie: ex-trials rifle) parts.

A VERY RARE rifle indeed. Perhaps even rarer than genuine trials rifles.

Frankly, I'm amazed it was still there when you saw it at that price. :yikes:

I very much doubt it still is. In fact I'll bet a few people who've read your story are on their way there now!

Then good luck to them. I just hope the rifle goes to a good home and doesn't get Bubba'd lol. The asking price of $500 is a little outside my price range.

Good grief! A $500 non-snipered trials rifle (w/cutoff!!!):runaway: you could trade for a whole PILE of No 4's! Even an early war rebuild or Fazackerly build-up would be super cool!:dancingbanana:

Well, my maximum budget is $425, and with that I have to get stripper clips, ammunition, cleaning kit, 100yd rifle targets, etc - oh, and a rifle lol. Looks like I'm buggered :move eek:

I had a good look round again today, and it looks like no one is buying Lee Enfields - I only noted 1 missing from the examples I saw yesterday (perhaps that should set off alarm bells?). I am going back for the last 2 hours of the show tomorrow, so we shall see how desperate people are to sell.

Then again, does anyone want to buy a kidney? I have a spare.....

Ok, then. I have another question. What would be the going price for a No.4 Mk1 that was made up of trials rifle parts, as mentioned in the post above, if the weapon is in very good to excellent condition, with a clean bore with no obvious wear, and with matching serial numbers, including the magazine? In essence, I am asking if it is morally right for me to rob my daughter's piggy bank? (she's 2 - she won't notice for another 6 or 7 years).

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

Ok, then. I have another question. What would be the going price for a No.4 Mk1 that was made up of trials rifle parts, as mentioned in the post above, if the weapon is in very good to excellent condition, with a clean bore with no obvious wear, and with matching serial numbers, including the magazine? In essence, I am asking if it is morally right for me to rob my daughter's piggy bank? (she's 2 - she won't notice for another 6 or 7 years).

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You cannot pay to much for an Enfield, you are just paying next years prices a little early.

Yes - Kill the pig !!!

The pig was summarily executed at 8.22am this morning. Condolences and orders for sides of bacon can be left at this address.

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Originally Posted by Amatikulu

Seriously, you need to go check it out carefully. The trials are marked on the opposite (LHS) butt socket and there should be a cypher date and Enfield stamped there. It might also have been a "gasp, choke" a No.1 Mark VI, the holiest of holies!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IM001471-1.jpg

That's a blurred shot of my No.1 mark VI - trials are I believe marked in the same place

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It looked just like that, except for no royal markings, etc. The finish was also a little shinier, but I do not know how that would affect collectability and/or value.

Are you sure of the recess behind the safety catch?

If so, an even rarer rifle, practically unknown in fact.

Not trying to make you feel bad BTW...No one's born knowing.

Absolutely sure about the recess. It wasn't sold at the Reno Show, so it is still in circulation. It might even be back in Reno in November, if no-one has snapped it up. If it is there, I will take pictures and post them here.

Dang it - I could have shut up and pretended that it had been sold, but I am not a very good dog in a manger lol

Makes you wanna go to Reno doesn't it!?!

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Are you sure of the recess behind the safety catch?

If so, an even rarer rifle, practically unknown in fact.

Not trying to make you feel bad BTW...No one's born knowing.

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So what the heck was it? Sorry for resurrecting such an old post, but I am now very curious. Would someone tell me the significance of the recess behind the safety catch on a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1 cobbled together from trials rifle components and with a magazine cut-off? Is it that rare? Should I kick myself in the butt for not buying the rifle on the spot (or get someone else to kick me - there are people lining up for the privilege anyway)? Actually, I am not upset about missing out on a potentially rare variant, but I would like to know what to look for next time (if there ever is a next time...)

If it was a No. I Mk VI (number one mark six) it is one of perhaps 1,200. It is a transitional model from the No. 1 to the No.4, and has similarities of each.
The flat side walled receiver is NOT one of the similarities. They are often confused with trials No. 4's, (in conversation, anyway) None of the Mk VIs were converted to snipers as many of the trials 4's were. There are, it seems less than 20 VI's in circulation in North America from serial number lists. Rare, indeed!

Bugger, bugger, bugger.....WHAT HAVE I DONE?????? :P

Generally called a missed opporunity! I should think we've ALL been there at one point or another! Its part of the fun.

So true. If by some miracle it comes back to Reno unsold, then I will be ready to leap into action lol

This is why you ask for names and contact info on interesting items.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...243c48c2-1.jpg

If it was me I'd be contacting the organizers of the show and asking contact info about the vendors. The tables location in the hall will be an instant giveaway on who it was. Then you have it. Nothing to lose by asking.
Remember, people who sell at shows travel, by the time they come back to Reno they will have done a dozen other shows.
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ightlong-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../sixrmed-1.jpg

Here's a little inspiration for ya, this is my no1mk6 bought at a show in Ventura north of los angeles for $225 about 5 years ago. The seller thought there was something odd/special about it but couldn't be bothered looking it up..and he was an enfield knowledgable seller too. It had a rough non original wood set on it, so you're now seeing it after restoration, with the fine assist from member's here and at jouster. FWIW Even though I knew no1mk6's were not common I had no idea how much so, I'm still surprised at how few are showing up.
Go phone the show organizers, or I will(just joking, I'm not even in the US anymore).


Also; gun show people are a community, if you can get contact info for any other seller there, especially enfielders they probably know who you're asking for. ps, don't tell them what you're chasing, that'd be a mugs move, just say it had an unusual serial number etc, until you get the right people, best of luck, I know I'd be doing it...