Looking for source to reline damascus shotgun barrels.

I recently inherited a very fine German made hammer gun that my uncle brought home from Germany in the early 1960s after a tour in the Army. Its probably a turn of the century piece, a guild gun of extremely high quality. The engraving is typical German style on the left, with stag in deep woods, and what I believe is a Weimaraner on the right. Stock trim is a very dark horn, including the buttplate. Its a gun worth saving

Unfortuneately, the barrels are damascus and in 16 gauge. I know Unc. used to hunt with this for years, but I dont want to take a chance. I'd really like to hunt this gun, it is too nice to be just a wall hanger. Does anybody know someone who can bore these out and insert some tubes (besides Briley - they only seem to do 12 gauge to 20 conversions). I think the wall thickness of the barrels is enough to get some 20 gauge tubes in there, though I could live with 28, as the gun is quite trim other than the barrel dia at the breech.

Personally, if it were my gun, I wouldn't even think about sleeving the barrels. I would use it as is with appropriate loads.

"...use it as is with appropriate loads...." No such thing.
"...bore these out..." Rarely enough steel. It isn't a solid tube either.

Birmingham Proof House will test and stamp damascus barrelled guns for smokeless powder.
Check Double Gun Journal. There is a body of information available about the contemporary use of damascus barrelled guns.
There are different opinions about the use of older guns.
And as they say, everyone has an opinion.
Check the proof marks on the wter table and barrels of the gun.
Incidentally, I have a pair of 16 to 20 gauge Browning inserts I won't be using.

Sherman Bell's articles (beginning in Winter 1999) on numerous makes and models of damascus barrel shotguns in Double Gun Journal have pretty much debunked this myth of "dangerous damascus barrels." Heck, they still MAKE damascus barrels for shotguns in ENgland (very expensive!).

This guy was amazingly meticulous. Short of loading up a 30,000 PSI load (3X normal and 5X the powder load!) and no rust or pitting in the bore, they are perfectly okay to shoot. (oh, and the failures even then were not catastrophic).

If you remain paranoid, why not just use a slip-in CHAMBER INSERT and live with it as a .28 gauge or .410 caliber.


http://www.doublegunshop.com/chambermates.htm

have a competent person (buy a double-gun journal at Barnes and Noble for a list) inspect the bore and then shoot light field and target loads (or Black Powder if you like) and you will be fine.

The proofs are nitro proofs, and one of the manufacturers does in fact make 16 to 20 gauge sleeves. I was only planning on using light low brass game loads....if I clamp the gun up and test fire it from a safe distance, I should be OK for occasional hunting, no? The bores are bright and shiney.

Everyone either seems to think damascus barrels are a death wish or they think those people are rumor mongers and damascus barrels are fine to shoot.

Sir....email me a price for those 16 to 20 gauge inserts if you want to sell.

Thanks!

AKA Hugh Uno wrote: Sherman Bell's articles (beginning in Winter 1999) on numerous makes and models of damascus barrel shotguns in Double Gun Journal have pretty much debunked this myth of "dangerous damascus barrels."

Maybe top quality English Damascus barrels will still be OK, but I doubt Mr. Bell has seen some of the Damascus barrels I have seen, some of which were little more than orange iron lace. Most Damascus barrel shotguns in the U.S. were cheap Belgian guns, on the margin of safety when they were made and which have not improved with time. While they sometimes look good on the outside and appear shiny looking down the bore, sectioning the barrel will show that corrosion has eaten away at the welds to the point where I challenge Mr. Bell or anyone else to claim they are safe to fire with any load.

I have also seen a few Damascus barrels blow with both black and smokeless powder loads, and I consider calling the claim of "dangerous Damascus barrels" a "myth" highly irresponsible as a blanket statement, even if it is true for some guns or for some specific gun.

I cannot in good conscience recommend firing any Damascus barrel guns, and certainly not with modern loads.

I also don't recommend proof testing; proof testing (proving) a barrel is a potentially destructive test. If the barrel holds, fine. If it doesn't the gun is ruined, not a nice fate if the gun is a valuable collectible.

Jim

www.16ga.com they have a group using special reloads.

Also google "Teague" as he doe relining BUT expensive.

It will still be a 16ga.

"Try it you'll like it!"

I beleive Briley either makes liners or tube inserts.

I have also seen a few Damascus barrels blow with both black and smokeless powder loads
********

have the same level of believability as "I have seen several XXXXX (name your problem, LN Springfields, Glocks, M1A's, Colt SAA, etc.) blow up."

As a matter of fact, 99.7% of us have NEVER seen ANYTHING "blow up" so anyone claiming "a few" (which means at LEAST 3-4) guns of any specific make and model "blow up" get me reaching for my can of BS repellent real quick.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Bell (if I recall correctly) used a bit of almost everything english, Euro, and US (LC Smith and Parker) guns, although none were in bad rusted, pitted shape to begin with.

Bottom line, I would shot ANY decent quality "tight" and clean LEGITIMATE NATIONAL PROOFED shotgun with a damascus barrel with low-brass non-mag target and field loads..

Does this means some loose low budget beater, NO.

You might keep in mind that the barrels MAY be solid steel and NOT damascus.
People became used to the pattern on damascus barrels and preferred them for their looks. Gun makers later would acid etch the damascus pattern on a modern solid steel barrel purely as a selling point. If it's marked "fluss stahl" anywhere, its only fake damascus.

Hi, AKA Hugh Uno,

Since your initial statement claimed that any danger in Damascus barrels is a myth, why have you qualified your statement or limited it to high grade guns? Why not shoot those loose, rattly, worn out old "Barkers" and "W. Richards" Damascus barrel guns? Why not shoot guns with barrels so rusted out that they were close to dissolving on their own, without being fired at all? Maybe you could even use 2 3/4 Magnum loads (or even 3" Magnum Steel) because blown barrels are a "myth".

To clarify, no I have not "seen" any of those Damascus guns blow up. But I have seen them after they let go, and I have seen one man with parts of three fingers missing. Granted, he was using 2 3/4 Magnum loads, but then you say Damascus barrels can't blow so he should have had no problem, right?

Top quality Damascus barrels, recently proved, may be OK to fire, even with smokeless powder loads. But to simply declare that ALL Damascus barrel guns are perfectly safe is, I repeat, irresponsible.

Jim

I would be happy to respond.

but posting what you THINK I said is nothing close to what I did say and makes people even less likely to take you seriously.

sorry you got caught bloviating (and backtracking) about "have also seen a few Damascus barrels blow" (your EXACT words BTW).

Maybe I "bloviated", but I didn't give "advice" that could cause injury to those who accept it without thinking.

Jim

There are those who say that no damascus barrelled gun should ever be fired. That is an opinion, but not a fact.
Obviously some damascus barrelled guns are unsafe. Others are perfectly serviceable.
Then again, there are guns with fluid steel barrels that are not fit to use.
It really depends on the gun, and the common sense of the shooter.

My question is regarding the short chamber inserts that are sold.

How does a sub-gauge seal the bore after leaving that short little insert to be able to be propelled down the bore? I wouldn't think it would work so well.

Not ideal- low velocity and generally WIDE patterning (not always, though), but they do work if the inserts and gun weren't junk to start.

Briley tubes! Very nice, if a little pricey. But even they won't make a worn out gun safe to shoot, good barrels or no.

Try and get copies of the Double Gun Journal and read the articles on the damascus test. They are interesting. You could also have the barrels magne-flux tested and exrayed to look for any hidden defects.
john