Anybody know if this is a WW2 made Captain marked M1 helmet? Seam is in the front, but bails swivel.
M1 helmet pictures by AndrewG1957 - Photobucket
Thanks for any help...its an M1.. ;-)
Andy
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Anybody know if this is a WW2 made Captain marked M1 helmet? Seam is in the front, but bails swivel.
M1 helmet pictures by AndrewG1957 - Photobucket
Thanks for any help...its an M1.. ;-)
Andy
Sewn on chinstrap. I've owned both with the rigid strap holder and those that move back and forth. There is at least one WEB site on the Internet devoted to the WW2 USGI M1 helmet.
Yep its ww2 and a nice one at that... The liner and seam are a dead giveaway.... Swivel bales are ww2 they switched from the fixed bale sometime to the swivel sometime in late 43...
go to M1-helmet.com for more info, its a great website :thup:
Home of the M-1 Helmet
Like all collectibles, there are people who will take advantage and enhance or completely fake M1 helmets to make a quick dollar.
It's an authentic second generation (swivel bale) introduced in October 1943.
They are fairly common. The army switched to 'swivel bales' after having problems with the 'fixed bale' helmets having the bails broken off.
(GI's broke many by sitting on them)
Of course 'fixed bale' helmets are worth much more now because of their rarity.
(Many of them are faked these days)
McCord Radiator made the majority of M1 helmest and Schulueter Mfg made some, with the Schulueter being more rare. By VJ Day McCord produced 22 million M1 helmets and Schuluter produced 2 million.
(The Schuluerter helmets will have an 'S' stamped under the brim are are worth more)
I got into collecting M1 helmets a few years ago and have several books on the subject. The biggest problem is there are more faked painted helmets than humped gun parts!
Unfortunately, the chance of the captain bars being authentic is slim. You need to look at the wear and age carefully to see if it looks like the rest of the paint. Most all WWII era paint contained lead and in some cases collectors have exposed very real looking fakes by using black lights and other means of testing the paint.
(Then some humpers began using old paint when they can find it!)
Faked rank and unit marked helmets are rampant these days. German helmets started this 'Hump' thing because the prices went up to astronomical levels.
Then after 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Band Of Brothers' people went nuts for M1 helmets trying to find examples of unit marked helmets. Humpers obliged and many, many people buy them thinking they found a treasure.
(Anytime there's something people want, crooks will get into the picture)
It's said (barely jokingly) amongst collectors there are more WWII M1 Airborne helmets on eBay that existed on D-Day!
They are the playing card designs you see on eBay, (Spades, clubs, etc)
(Details of the unit symbols and variations would take up a chapter - The regulations for these symbols were vague. Some were done very well, but many looked very sloppy - It was common to make GI's paint helmets as punishment)
Most marked M1 helmets were scooped up by collectors years ago and are very rare and difficult to find. If you locate one they cost a fortune and are almost exclusively sole between collectors. Ebay buyers often pay a few hundred dollars for them thinking they got a deal, when authentic M1 helmets with authentic markings can go into four figures.
There are also many companies now who create 'reproductions' that look very good and sell them as such. The problem occurs because few are marked as reproductions and then they are resold later down the line as authentic. Every part of the shell is available as reproduction parts as well.
The seller told the truth about this helmet. The cork texture, paint, straps, and symbols are recreations.
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I'm not saying this one is a fake. There's not enough info in the photos to tell anything for certain, but the chance of it being 'enhanced' by someone is overwhelming just by looking at the photos of the captain's bars. Sadly there are many very many desirable front seam helmets that are ruined by people who could care less and they paint fake markings all over them to make a buck.
There are many collectors books and these are very good if anyone is interested in getting into collecting M1 helmets, but it can be a frustrating and expensive hobby. (I got out of it)
The M1 Helmet - History of the M-Helmet by Mark A. Reynosa
Painted Steel - Steel pots by Cris Armold
M1 Helmets Collectors Guide of WWII by Michael Spivey
Sorry for the long post, I only wanted you to be careful if you're buying. I'd never buy one from the internet. They're one of those things you almost need to hold in your hand and inspect carefully. Sadly this collecting field has been humped to death.
~ Harlan
Harlan is the expert on WW 2 M1 helmet's :thup:.
Just remember when looking at liners that are advertised as being original vet bring backs.....look at the webbing, does it look like some GI had it on his sweaty stinky head while crawling thru the muck? Or does it look brand new inside..........
I have often wondered about the symbols painted on helmets in WWII movies. I know that in my time of service it was forbidden to paint anything on my helmet except my serial number in white paint on the underside. (Division and rank decals went on the helmet liner, which would have been covered in combat.)
I can hardly believe that people painted their rank on the helmet, as one of the prime rules for snipers was to shoot officers and NCOs.
Jim
Harlan, and all, I got this helmet many years ago. It came from an estate. If the helmet is 100% correct/original, any idea on value as an Officers helmet?
Thanks...Andy
John C. Tittle, the old man who taught me how to shoot, was an Infantryman in Europe... came in as a replacement about a month or two after D-Day. They were issued M-1s picked up on the beach and cosmolined, sand, salt, and all. He said the only officers who lasted any time were the ones who wore NO rank and carried a RIFLE.
Andy
Front seam is good sign as late and post wwii helmets had a rear seam since GI's used helmets as digging tools and the seam of the rim edge was often damaged. Swivel bales would probably date the helmet late 43 or early 44. Khaki webbing is positive too. Does the helmet have a vertical white stripe to the back?
If original I'd guess $400-$600 in value. I sold a collection of WWII helmets last year and that seems to be the range for a Lt-Capt mid war helmet.
Sincerely
David
David is correct on the approximate value if it's authentic. That's including the WWII vintage liner. Vintage liners are becoming more rare than helmets.
Many soldiers painted over unit/rank markings before actually going into battle. There are many examples of helmets where just the markings were painted over.
Dave, theres a small white dab of paint on the inside rear of the shell.
My father was in the 8th army medical corps in Korea. He said anyone wearing a red cross helmet in combat was killed first, the theory being it would take several medically untrained soldiers to replace one medic. Whether or not that's what the North Korean's and ChiCom's had on their minds is debatable, but that's what the feelings were of the medics under fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim K
That sounds terrible PhillipM, but I'm not surprised at all.
I don't know as much history of helmets used in Korea. Many M1 helmets used in Korea were WWII helmets, but by need, McCord Radiator Company began producing helmets again under contract by the military.
The design (shape) changed a little. All were rear seam. M1 helmets produced for the Korean War are easily identifiable by collectors.
Brief History of WWII Medical M1 Helmets (In my own words)
Early in WWII, US GI's noticed the German medics in North Africa painted red cross markings on their helmets, medical arm bands, and even white 'aprons' with a red cross tied over their uniforms. The US GI's respected the Germans as medics and didn't fire on them, and the American medics of the time began to paint Red Crosses on their helmets for the first time.
By the invasion of Sicily, many medics had painted red crosses on their helmets, and the Germans began to recognized the importance.
Stories have been told that German's didn't respect the red crosses on USGI medics, but by far it's not true!
There are more true stories where German's returned surrounded or captured medics from the field of combat back to their units.
By far, the Germans respected the red cross markings of the US medics.
This is why there are so many medic helmets that were painted with red crosses in the European Theater. Many, or most US medics had red crosses on their helmets painted by units or even by the medic alone.
The variations throughout WWII were varied to extreme because it was never recognized by the US Army as a standard practice, but most medics had their helmets painted themselves or they were painted by people in their divisions because they found the Germans respected the markings and even helped some medics get back to their side.
Below are just a very few markings found on authentic M1 helmets from WWII. Take note that all were hand painted and not uniform at all.
We all know Medic Helmets from watching movies, but none were 'perfect' roundels and crosses.
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Medics in the Pacific began to paint red crosses on their helmets, but found the Japanese would fire on them first! The Japanese would fire on any GI with any marking first and most all soldiers in the pacific theater quickly did away with ANY markings on their helmets.
It was a different world fighting the Japanese, as they had no respect as far as chivalry in combat.
Sorry I bored anyone. The History of M1 Helmets tells a story of it's own.