GEW98M 1917 Amberg

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08-19-2009, 10:09 PM
c&rfan

GEW98M 1917 Amberg

Back in the 1960s I decided that I needed an example of a WWI Gew98 Mauser to fill a hole in my collection. At the time, mail order Gew98s in Good to VG condition (without regard for matching numbers) were selling for less that WWII Kar98s so I ordered one by mail.

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Considering the purchase price, I was pleased with the rifle I received: It was a 1917 Amberg. Most of the numbered parts on the bolt assembly matched; the s/ns on the receiver and barrel matched (but didn't match the number on the bolt) and the s/ns on the trigger guard/magazine assembly didn't match either the bolt or receiver/barrel. The bore was a bit worn and dark but the exterior metal was rust free and had 95% + of its dark blue finish both above and below the wood (which was in great shape with very minor scratches and dings). Overall, the exterior of the rifle appeared to have undergone an arsenal rehab at some point in its history.

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Not being familiar with Gew98s at the time, it was a while before I noticed that the rear sight on my rifle didn't match those I would see on WWI dated Gew98s in gun shops and at gun shows.

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With a little research I was satisfied that I had what is known as a Weimar rifle that resulted from the German Weimar Republic's modification of WWI Gew98s in the early 1920s. Then I ran across a thread on a forum discussing the Gew98M rifles used by the Wehrmacht and SS prior to and during WWII.

It seems that in 1934 the newly established Nazi Government began sending tens of thousands of Gew98s to Mauser and other factories to be fitted with new rear sights made by Mauser marked S/42 and K for 1934 or G for 1935 (The rear sight on my rifle is marked S/42G). These new rear sights were required for use of the now standard "S" heavy ball ammo and were identical in use to the sights on the soon to be distributed Kar98k rifle. The modified rifles have been designated the Gew98M.

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According to what I've been able to find out, the Gew98Ms were the main battle rifle of the Wehrmacht from 1934 till 1935 when the production of the Kar98k reached an acceptable level for distribution. By 1939, the SS was the major fighting force equipped with Gew98M as "hand-me-down" weapons since they were a political organization and not considered part of the Wehrmacht. The SS continued using Gew98Ms right up to 1945 even though that by 1943 they had access to all Wehrmacht stores and equipment. Gew98Ms were used and left in Spain during the Spanish Civil War and apparently provided a source for imports to the U.S. and Australia during the 1960s.

I am curious to know how common these rifles are in the marketplace and their desirability for collectors and value. I haven't seen any advertised or at gun shows in my area and there is speculation that most of those that were imported over 40 years ago may have been "sporterized".

Any information will be deeply appreciated.
08-20-2009, 01:24 PM
gunner

Hi C & rfan, seine Waffe und eine schöne, wie Sie sagten, es sei, die für die Wehrmacht und ihre Munition. Vorher war es in der "Kaiserlichen Armee" und vielleicht gibt es mehr Markierungen von der deutschen Armee in WWI. Sie hatten sie oft entfernt auf 1934.

Grüße

Gunner

Tiny little bomb on the pic below. Where have i seen this bomb before, mmmhh.....?
08-20-2009, 04:08 PM
c&rfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunner

Hi C & rfan, seine Waffe und eine schöne, wie Sie sagten, es sei, die für die Wehrmacht und ihre Munition. Vorher war es in der "Kaiserlichen Armee" und vielleicht gibt es mehr Markierungen von der deutschen Armee in WWI. Sie hatten sie oft entfernt auf 1934.

Grüße

Gunner

Tiny little bomb on the pic below. Where have i seen this bomb before, mmmhh.....?

Sorry Gunner, I don't know the German language and I don't have a German to English dictionary, so it will have to be in plain english if will you be so kind to share your thoughts with me.

As for the bomb, the photo was made at the Trinity site - I just had to have my photo taken with the ultimate in Curio and Relics. :yikes:
08-20-2009, 04:23 PM
gunner

EXCUSE me please but my horrible computer has a little problem with a Google tool. Sometimes he translated things from english into german with out any order from me. I wrote : Hi c & rfan nice rifle and as you said it was adopted for the " Wehrmacht " in 1934 bot originally it was for the German army " Kaiserliche Armee " in WWI. Probably there are more markings from 1917 on the rifle ? Not so often seen a rifle from Amberg thats not far away from me. Nice piece of history.

Regards

Gunner
08-20-2009, 05:06 PM
c&rfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunner

EXCUSE me please but my horrible computer has a little problem with a Google tool. Sometimes he translated things from english into german with out any order from me. I wrote : Hi c & rfan nice rifle and as you said it was adopted for the " Wehrmacht " in 1934 bot originally it was for the German army " Kaiserliche Armee " in WWI. Probably there are more markings from 1917 on the rifle ? Not so often seen a rifle from Amberg thats not far away from me. Nice piece of history.

Regards

Gunner

Thanks for the info Gunner. I knew that Amberg was in Bavaria; do you know if there is anything left of the arms factory or a museum detailing its history?
08-21-2009, 01:25 AM
gunner

Hi c&rfan, i dont know if there is a museeum at Amberg but i`ll find it out.Post it later.

Regards

Gunner
08-21-2009, 11:37 AM
jisii

G98m

I bought a very similar rifle at a local Estate auction several years ago, marked Simson & Co. Suhl and dated 1916. It also has mixed numbers and the K98 type rear sight but, I'm happy to say, has a near mint bright and shiney bore. Numbers match on receiver and barrel. I have shot it and accuracy seemed to be very good. At the time, I was told on several forums that it was a "G98M" arsenal reworked sometime in the 1920s. I was also told that it may have been one of the rifles sent to Franco's forces in Spain but It also must have been in German service as it is marked with both Imperial and Weimar eagle stamps. The stock isn't as nice as the one above but it is unusual in that the butt stock is made in two pieces, with the lower portion dovetailed into the top portion. I have seen a few other similar pieces at gun shows so they must not be unusual or rare. However, I have never seen another rifle with the two-piece buttstock. FWIW.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...collage2-1.jpg
08-21-2009, 12:00 PM
c&rfan

That is a nice rifle jisii. Thanks for sharing.
08-21-2009, 03:35 PM
Calif-Steve

I did buy 2 of those Gew98M's years back via mail order. Both in nice, mint condition, but both had bores only fair-good. I guess all of the German Army Gew98's were rebuilt 1934/35 prior to large scale production of the Kar98k. I haven't seen one for sale in years. Nice keepers, glad I kept both of mine.
08-21-2009, 04:04 PM
gunner

Hello c&rfan, i searched for a museum in Amberg. There is really a City museum with an exhibition of the royal bavarian rifle factory. Then there is an museum in Ingolstadt, the bavarian army museeum with themes from the midage til WWII. The last is a normal museum with a standard exihibition. Both seem to be interresting. Here is a link to the Ingolstadt museum, but text is only in german. If you use Google you can translate the website or use Babelfish translator.

Bayerisches Armeemuseum Ingolstadt

Regards

Gunner
08-21-2009, 04:26 PM
c&rfan

Thanks for the info Gunner. I'll check out that web page.
08-22-2009, 10:20 PM
Calif-Steve

One additional comment. I think these new/mint rifles came out of Spain in the mid-1963/4 timeframe. German supplied during the Spanish Civil War. Most likely arrived too late for combat. I saw many mint 71/84 rifles that were in the same shipment. All were new and nice.
08-22-2009, 11:27 PM
c&rfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

One additional comment. I think these new/mint rifles came out of Spain in the mid-1963/4 timeframe. German supplied during the Spanish Civil War. Most likely arrived too late for combat. I saw many mint 71/84 rifles that were in the same shipment. All were new and nice.

You're probably correct. From what I've read elsewhere the timing was right for when I bought mine.
08-23-2009, 12:22 PM
Calif-Steve

Those were the days. I recall all of that shipment sold at $29.95 price range. The 71/84's went off at around $34.95.
08-23-2009, 01:58 PM
c&rfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

Those were the days. I recall all of that shipment sold at $29.95 price range. The 71/84's went off at around $34.95.

Yep, $29.95 is what I paid for mine. Enfields and Mosin Nagants were going for between $15 and $20 and I believe K98s were in the range of $50 along with O3s and 03A3s. The last three were popular for making sporters with little modification.
08-28-2009, 03:20 PM
jisii

current project DWM 1917

My current sporter Mauser project may also been part of those 1964 shipments. It is a DWM Mauser dated 1917. I bought at a local auction in July ($130.00) where it was advertised as a 7mm. It is marked "GEW 98" on the left side of the receiver, numbers match on everything but the bolt and it is far too badly butchered to be restored, having been drilled for a receiver sight and being cut down to approx. 23-3/4" barrel length with a sporter ramp front sight installed. After I got it home and found out it was an 8mm, My first reaction was that the action would get a new 7mm barrel in the near future. However, a trip to he range changed my mind: with my handloads (150 Gr. Sierra SP with 47 Gr. IMR 3031)this thing shoots groups (at 75 yards) with the holes touching! I realized this was too good a barrel to be wasted so I'm shopping for a decent sporter stock for it. I don't think I'll put a scope on it; it does just fine with the Redfield receiver sight. FWIW.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...collage2-2.jpg
09-12-2009, 01:39 AM
Calif-Steve

I am looking at a Spandau 1917 GEW98. Serial number is 36! Barrel does match. Barrel length is 24" and rear sight is marked S/42G. The rear handguard ring has been milled off. This was a common Hunter's Lodge sporter rifle. Most likely out of Spain 1962/63? Common years back, not around anymore.
09-12-2009, 04:32 AM
Patrick Chadwick

Don't dig up the plant...

... just to see how the roots are growing!

Jisii, if that rifle shoots as well as you say, why not leave it alone?

The barrel length is the same as the K98 family, so it would be conceivable to restore it to a K98k-lookalike. But why spend money on a different sporter stock if it shoots so well as it is? The system is apperently well bedded to the existing stock, so why change it?

Patrick
09-12-2009, 09:38 PM
Calif-Steve

The Germans must have shipped all sorts of Gew98's to Spain. Long barrel versions and short barrel 98k versions. Also piles of mint 71/84's. All sold into the USA 1964-65 time frame.
07-01-2010, 11:53 PM
enbloc8

I got a Gew 98M back around 2001-02 at an area gun store. This was a more recent import (maybe out of Turkey?) as it had import marks along the barrel, and it was definitely not as nice as the 1960s Spanish imports pictured. Looks like it's all there, though.
07-02-2010, 10:29 PM
Calif-Steve

I also picked 2 Gew98's out of Turkey 10 years back. Not Gew98M's, but true Gew98's. Fair/good bores and in decent shape. Piles of Turkish Crescent Moon stamps make them easy to identify. I don't know who else has German WWI equipment still in inventory. I suspect the Turkish Mausers will be the last of German WWI equipment.