Rock-Ola connoisseurs, how many issues do you see with this one?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=137234487
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Rock-Ola connoisseurs, how many issues do you see with this one?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=137234487
stock cartouches, rear sight, barrel band, bogus hammer transfer gimmicks all from a seller WHO always has an endless supply of "original type carbine" and i've probably missed a thing or two so let me know David regards
Stu
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09/08/G5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09/08/G4-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09/08/G1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...009/08/G-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/08/G12-1.jpg
same serial range as the dog in question.
i have an unmarked barrel band on this one. and i think the barrel on the one in question is F.U.B.A.R.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/08/G10-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09/08/G9-1.jpg
Hey Stu. The accetptance stamp looks like something out of Harrison's book. Anyone else? What details make the barrel band fake? What about the proof P?
dbarn, Stu is correct. The barrel is a fake too. Those of us who collect these things could list the details, but we don't want to coach the humpers. There isn't much of anything correct about that carbine. Just to give you an example, the RMC and crossed cannons on the stock were a single stamp and were ALWAYS in a certain position, as shown on Stu's picture. The same markings on that stock are not in the same relative positions. That tells you that they are faked. The front sight os wrong for a Rock-Ola too, but I won't tell you exactly what is incorrect, just that it is. If you want more info, email me and I'll be happy to give you some lessons.
Just the RMC and crossed cannons have been talked about so much here you would think they would fake it better then they did on that stock.
And it is up to $2200 so far.
Thanks Jimb, my point is the proof P is not correct and folks can take it from there. Your point is taken. I do not share detail pictures any longer due to humpers. Hopefully those that are bidding can benefit from some lessons, if indeed the bids are real.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimb16
Quote:
Originally Posted by STU1
The hammer is not bogus.
I'd like to see a better view of the milling cut in the stocks slide well....just in front of the wood bridge.
I'm not convinced it's a RMC stock.
Charlie-painter777
Poor buyer, $3728 for a fake.
Scott
You almost don't know who to blame the most. The seller or the buyer. The seller is definitely misrepresenting the "Rock-Ola" by not disclosing it's a put together with incorrect and fake parts. The buyer is willing to put down a chunk of change with an obvious severe lack of knowledge. Unless he comes to his senses in three days, it will be a very hard lesson to learn.
Looks like the inside of the barrel is messed up too.
Well, you guys are at it again. I hate to be so critical but since you are ridiculously so, it makes it a little easier. Once again, anything posted on here that one of you don't own is a complete fake. I agree some of the stuff on this one is bogus, fake, questionable, whatever, but you have pegged everything but the receiver as being fake. I'll go ahead and say it, the receiver is a fake too. He obviously built it with an Erector set in his basement. You are again making the mistaken assumption that every part, cartouche, stamping, mill mark, etc, is exactly the same on every gun produced by a particular contractor. I think you all know how many prime and sub contractors were used for this effort. They weren't worried about uniformity of all of these minor "collectors" issues, nor did they achieve it. And, just how many guns that are sold on GB or wherever do you think are in perfect "bring back" condition, that still has every original part in it? Almost none? But I'm sure all of your guns are just perfect.
Yep, tough crowd, BUT they know way more than I do! I've been off the board over a year or more (since before they left the old CSP), but back then they kept me out of trouble when I asked questions BEFORE I bought.
They are very helpful and don't mind no-nothings like me asking for advice. I, for one, thank them for their help. Being an executive member of a different firearms forum board, I know how tiring answering the same question over and over again from new, new members. This is actually a fairly patient and VERY helpful crowd.
They helped me identify my current carbine as probably having been a Mash Az Israeli police weapon, when I had no idea what I had. They were helpful with my questions about the late production Inland (Type II rear sight, Type 3 band) that was like the one my Dad had on Iwo Jima, Unfortunately, the barrel was poor and it had minute of milk jug accuracy) Thanks guys.
.......but I think the smile is FAKE!
mscarbines,
This one has some of the worst fake markings I've seen. If a seller has a carbine with several very poor fake parts (and especially markings) that jump out like this one did, the whole carbine is suspect. These crooks make me sick.
I feel very sorry for the buyer. He's buying from faith in human decency.
He'll eventually show the gun to a knowledgeable collector. At first he'll be in denial. He may or may not believe the collector's knowledge and try to blow off what he hears. Later he'll find that other knowledgeable collectors will see obvious issues. Some might not even tell him because they feel bad for him, but he'll know they see problems. He may stay in denial but in the back of his mind the joy will be gone.
These guys on the forums are great,i love it when they bring out fake markings , parts,and find faults with guns. . Im here to learn and they sure know a lot more than I do.Im gun shy,too many crooks out there faking WW2 stuff and all military stuff to make a buck. i got stuck on some German items recently. These crooked dealers are experts, so buyer beware. Thanks guys for bringing the fakes to our attention. don b in Fl.
I agree in the whole that we should thank the guys here for the heads up and take this info to the bank,
wow, miss carbines really layed into you guys
Phillydude -
If he knew anything at all about carbines we'd all take it personally and feel bad.
I assume he thinks he's helping in some way.
I feel very good there are so many new carbine owners who've found this site and the wealth of knowledge here. Not so long ago many carbine experts were a tight knit bunch and let new guys go through very bad times. (I did and have the scars)
The group here doesn't have anything to gain by helping and go very far out of their way with guarded public posts, personal emails, and phone calls to help new carbine owners. Many members from our group continue to help newer carbine owners with info and even send parts for free to help them out.
Cafdtw
I Know Exactly What You Mean, I Was Ripping Him For Ripping Into You Guys By Calling Him Miss Carbines.i Agree, This Site Helps More People Than Any Other I Look At,and When Im On Other Sites And See Someone Post A Technical Question, I Always Refer Them To This Site. The Only Drawback I See In This Forum Is It Gets Nowhere As Many As Topics Discussed As The Old Jouster Forum.
Well, I will speak up on one point. I think the barrel is ROCK-OLA made part but off a Quality carbine. That is why it is called a fake. The barrel has at least two rings in the bore so I think it is a real WWII part.
Maybe Ms. Carbines is the seller in question on GB.
Ya think! Someone ought to email this thread to the buyer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg V
Stock marking question;Looking at markings on GB etc. I have noticed that the ones on grungy stocks and my M1a1 seem to be dark in the bottom of stampings. Some of the cleaner stocks the marking are the same shade in the bottom of the stamping as the stock. Am I wrong to assume these to be non original?
Generally yes, you're incorrect in you assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadycon
First, phillydude at least try to act like a man and don't start name calling. Secondly, I have no connection to this gun whatsoever. Thirdly, cafdfw I am very comfortable with my knowledge of carbines, which is reasonably extensive. And finally, upon reflection, I tried to be way too cute with that post overshadowing the gist of what I was getting at. In the future I will leave the sarcasm out of it.
mscarbines, I get the feeling you think we are on a witch hunt to try and find as many things wrong as possible. There are quite a few of us here that have learned our knowledge the hard way and have been burned in the past. We try to give a heads up on fake items and people who try and pass of basement creations as the real deal. We have nothing to gain from this and hope to prevent others from making our past mistakes. The seller in this transaction has a known history of basement creations. Lighten up a little?
I'll admit we do sound pretty anal at times. But it's for the love of the collecting!.....Not the anal part........ ;-(
Cheers
Charlie-painter777
dbarn, What is a basement creation? What would the difference in value be? Thanks.....Frank:cheers:
Dr. Frankenstein could elaborate on this subect more than I. In this case there was added value to the tune of 3700+! "IT"S ALIVE."
O.K., I'm still not sure. If you by a receiver and build a carbine is that a creation? I'm just asking thats all, no need to get ruffled.....Frank
Just interjecting a little humor to the situation.
A restoration with original correct period USGI parts would have more value than a restoration with a fake acceptance stamp and fake parts with non period correct USGI parts. At least with the former your carbine would always be worth the sum value of the parts.
The sad thing about putting any fake parts/acceptance stamps on a carbine makes the entire carbine questionable and subjects it to intense scrutiny. Especially when this information is not disclosed up front.
OK, I can be a smart a** too.
I will go by a bad Carbine. And buy an nice one. Frank, I'm a bad speller too. :thup:
To me, buying a receiver and building a Carbine with real original parts, is a rebuild. I think what they are saying here is a person who uses remarked, bogus, or faked parts and stock stamps, is making a creation.
How about we call a built up from barreled receiver a rebuild/restoration.
A mixer bought and restored with correct parts should fall under the rebuild/restoration category also.
What say you Jim and David?
Charlie
And this............
This is a 'Frankenstein'
:-)
Charlie
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04751-1.jpg
Yep, if I ever saw one. Too funny! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
I wawnt to say thank you to the fellows on the Carbine Forum. I find them to be quite knowledgeable and have learned a good bit in my short itme here. When you have so many people faking and forging things why would a person not be suspicious. It has definitely made me take a step back and do a lot more research before adding another carbine to my collection. Thanks again to you guys.
Rick:)
cmbtinfantry
You wouldn't be looking for a stock....would you?
METAL is included ;-)
LOL..
Charlie-painter777
Charlie, you gotta hang on to that stock, that's so bad it's cool. Maybe find some salvage grade parts and build up a real monster. Every once in a while you see ugliest gun competitions, you got the start on a winner there!
Jeez charlie, I have to look for the pics a few years back I picked up Chinese loan-lease Rem. high number 03. Had a bullet hole thru the forend of the stock with tin wrapped around it and about 25 shoe tacks holding it all together.
Thats all I wan't to know about the difference. The one in question was a mix of good and fake parts, therefor the buyer got ripped. Building a correct carbine is O.K. Thanks.....Frank
I shall rephrase my original thoughts. I will now go back and remove Mr. Painter from my previous statement. Apparently he needs to be put on the bad list. Everyone else is still ok though. J/K:rofl:
Wait !
I'm the one making that list.
Charlie
Charlie, isn't this the same seller that had the spring tube Winchester on GB everyone found so many issues with?
Well, you're on your own 'bad' list now Charlie!
BrianQ has determined the staples on your stock are reproductions!
I don't recall ever making such a determination.Quote:
Originally Posted by cafdfw
I was only razzing Charlie, Brian. :)
~ Harlan
That's fine, do all the razzing you want just keep me out of it and don't put words into my mouth.
Sure, Brian. I understand and apologize.
~Harlan
Geeze Brian, don't get your panties in an uproar. I didn't read any malice intended towards you. Most people look at you as one of the more knowledgeable guys on the forum.
Harlan was just making a joke about Charlie's goofy looking stock. Didn't you see how ugly it was? :madsmile: You should have taken it as a compliment. Like, "what would Dear Abby think!"
I don't know your age, background, or location, you don't post anything in your profile. I do know I completed three tours in Viet Nam, lost my daughter at sixteen. Both my sisters to cancer. Both parents. Have had colon and prostate cancer. Bypass surgery. Prostate cancer came back and gone through radiation, and am only 60 years old. If I can see the fun in his comment, so should you. But you sounded like the little boy who got upset and is going to take his ball and run home.
Come on, can you lighten up a bit? We are all just trying to keep our hobby going, and maybe have a bit of fun along the way. Have some fun with us. :wave: We can take the ribbing back too. If not, shame on us. Hell, I get picked on for my bad spelling all the time.
I have never met Charlie, Harlan, or you. But if Paul does have the show next year in Dallas, let's all get together and have some fun. I'll buy the first round of drinks. :beerchug: What do you say?
JimF
After much thought I am going against my better judgment and make a comment (constructive I hope) based on my observations of past post from Brian. With all due respect for Brian, who without a doubt is very knowledgeable of the carbine and is willing to share his knowledge with the rest of us, it appears to me he has been quick to correct Bruce McAskill on the forum. My wish is when Bran needs to correct Bruce, send him e-mail and allow Bruce to take care of the forum. I personally am embarrassed for Bruce when I see this on the forum.
I agree with Jim, it would be good to get together and put a face with a name. I’ll take you up on a drink, sweet tea is my preference.
BB
Jim, your comments were duly noted and summarily discarded but thanks anyway. You, used collectively in this case, can do all the razzing, joking, kidding, etc, all you want and I could care less, just don’t include me. Although it is not my cup of tea if I want to get involved I will. That is my prerogative and no one else’s.
Hooks, so sorry you feel embarrassed for someone else being corrected. There was not and never will be an attack on the person just a correction of the info presented. There is a difference. If the individual takes it personally that is their problem.
Hooks,
If we all make it to the show, you are more then welcome to have drinks and BS with us. My drink of choice is Pepsi, But I can choke down a beer if needed.
BrianQ, since you just "summarily discarded" me, I guess that was a no to joining us? For that I am sorry. I think you have a wealth of information folks would love for you to share.
It seems like there is a ****ing match going on here. Am I missing something? Is there some sort of power struggle going on behind the scenes? We don't need that. I think most all of us really only want to learn more about carbines. Can't we stop the petty bickering and get back on topic.
If I have offend BrianQ, Charlie, Harlan, anyone, that was not my intent. I was only trying to lighten up the mood a bit. It seems my humor is not the same as others.
JimF
Jim,
Your humor is wonderful and it's 100% of what our community has been about for many years. I don't know you personally, but you've helped me so many times over the years. You took out time from your life to help me and responded to emails quickly with nothing but information, and I've learned so much from you when I really knew nothing. You never looked for public approval for helping new guys and nobody knew what you did for us.
You never once said anything against any other member and never, ever said anything bad against anyone on the forum. You helped me with an unbelievable knowledge of correct information and never, ever wanted to get credit publicly.
You helped me to get my first mixmasters running many years ago when I didn't have a clue. You sent me your list of your own 'stock pouch' manufacturers' and lists of real slings after I asked later in collecting, and other info when I only posted on the old forum asking for info and nobody responded. (Jim, I learned from what you sent me personally).
I know we're not close friends, but about twice a year I've sent an email to you asking a question from a dumb newbie status and you've helped me with a nice personality without making me feel bad.
You told me what books to buy and read, etc.
I'll never forget having a nice person who searched the old forums and helped new people with personal emails without making them feel stupid.
I'm sure as hell, you've taken your time to help many, many other people without wanting public recognition.
While learning over the past several years studying, I've realized you know more about carbines than most anyone, but you don't need to have a forum to have an on-line ego. (Hooks is also one of the best with info he doesn't expect to be rewarded for)
Gosh, I do hope we'll have the carbine gathering in Dallas ten minutes from my home.
I hope to meet you in person Jim and also Charlie (777) - I have two empty bedrooms here and you two can sleep next to each other in separate bedrooms here on clean sheets. (Honestly, I have room)
I hear Charlie snores very loudly Jim, but you'll have to put up with him in the next room if he makes it here to my house.
(BrianQ, that was a "Joke" about Charlie snoring, so don't beat me up about that too - Just a joke! ;-)
Charlie and Jim are invited here and we'll just have fun and a nice time if the carbine show comes to be. (I think it will be here)
'Hooks' you are invited here in my home too and we'll find room for everyone - (Better than a motel)
~ Harlan
Thanks for the invitation Harlan, however if we are able to make the trip I am sure the better-half will be with me. She was working in the emergency room at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas when Oswald was shot, she was off duty when JFK was assassinated. I am sure she would appreciate a trip back to Dallas to see what has changed.
Hooks,
I think your wife would love the visit. Parkland has changed so much, but several years ago the old emergency room entrance was still there. They didn't use it as an emergency entrance anymore though.
There's lots of sites and things to do in Dallas, but you should take your wife to the Ft. Worth stock yards, etc if you have time. It's much nicer. I've lived here all my life and can give y'all directions to about anyplace you want to go to.
I'm looking forward to meeting all of you guys if the show comes here!
Charlie said something about possibly renting a motor home or something and parking right there at the show. I can only imagine the stories etc that could go on. :)
~ Harlan
If the show comes to Dallas, I will surely come. And extend my visit, there are some good places to view reasonably close by. And I hope we can get together and chat.
But I will say the same. My wife wants to come too.
We (wife of 41 years) and I were in Austin two years ago. We had a great time going to Fredericksburg. They have a great National Museum of the Pacific War. :thup: Also that was where Admiral Chester Nimitz was raised, there is a museum for him too.
Then to the Alamo in San Antonio. She has mentioned wanting to see both of them again.
She even liked the Bats at the bridge.
I liked the BBQ at the County Line.
Looking forward to this happening. Go Paul.
Even though I don’t partake of the sprits now, my first introduction to a “yard of beer” was in Dallas. It was a scary thing to see it coming at you from that large bubble at the bottom of the glass.
Harlan,
The motor home I own. I bought it when my daughter was traveling the Equestrian shows. The wife drove the truck pulling the trailer and horses.
I was more or less the roadie. I wasn't allowed to use it for hunting or fishing trips....it's all girlie inside.
As far as the show, if it's a go. I plant to leave the wife at home. She'll appreciate the house and garage not smelling like Hoppes for a week or two.
I plan to go down and see Eddy Yuja....I owe him a fishing trip out on the gulf. Also planning to take him to the casino and show him you can bet more than a quarter !! I sure hope this show works out.
Charles down in Bhama invited me down for the last 2 shows but I couldn't make either. Those 2 shows were at the same time we are doing our Builder Show Case homes.
On another note,
My feelings are hurt with you guys calling my stock UGLY. I'd like to find a De-milled barreled receiver to stick in it. That would pretty it up.
Last Note,
I apologize to David B for getting this (his) post so far out of whack.
Cheers
Charlie-painter777
Your dreaming Charlie - You could put a 21 year old Pamela Anderson in that stock and it would still be UGLY as a mud fence! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Chralie I have a universal that was in a horrible basement flood would look good in your stock!
Sir I think I may have a piece to contribute if you want it. I have a cut apart receiver that maybe I could bolt back together might be a good start for the metal parts. :rofl::dancingbanana:
No apology necessary Charlie, I am enjoying the read. :beerchug:Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777