SA parts on a HRA Garand?

Didn't want to hijack another thread, but I too have questions regarding the use of SA parts on HRA rifles. Don't know too much about Garands, and would appreciate any help you gents can provide.
I have a papered CMP Service Grade HRA #57818xx with a 3-52 barrel that appears all original and correct except the following:
1. Trigger group 6528290-SA is all SA, and appears original
2. Walnut stock has a serifed "P" in a circle, and a small crossed cannon ordnance stamp, but NO DAS stamp.
Is it possible/likely that the rifle is all original, or that the stock and/or trigger group have been swapped out? I'm told that HRA did get some trigger groups from SA at some point. Don't know if the stock was a replacement or not.
Thanks for any info/education you all can provide on this one. In any event, the rifle is mint, and a definite keeper.
Regards,
John

Your barrell is probably correct for the 5.7 Million H&R, not sure about the rest of the parts.I'm sure you will get an answer from one of the H&R experts on the forum here.I believe these early barrells show up on late H&R 's

I'm no expert but I believe that H&R never used any Springfield trigger housings or stocks. They did use some WWII era Springfield hammers and op rods on the very early 4.66 rifles. They also used some early Springfield and Winchester op rod catches and maybe a few WWII era Springfield bolts on the early rifles. I don't think they used any Springfield parts on rifles as late as yours.

papered CMP Service Grade HRA #57818xx with a 3-52 barrel

(almost certainly original barrel)

Trigger group 6528290-SA is all SA,

(not original, switched out in Greece etc.)

Walnut stock has a serifed "P" in a circle, and a small crossed cannon ordnance stamp, but NO DAS stamp.

ditto

Is it possible/likely that the rifle is all original

NO

, or that the stock and/or trigger group have been swapped out?

YES

I'm told that HRA did get some trigger groups from SA at some point.

NO

a definite keeper., but the parts swap is why you got a minty rifle from CMP as a Service Grade (very common occurance back a few years ago)

Thank you gentlemen for your asistance and input. I always appreciate learning a bit more about these rifles.
One final question. Can anyone clarify where this stock may have come from with the markings shown and no DAS stamp? Is it a SA replacement?
Regards,
John

Kikokat: Is your H@R a Greek return? Re: Comment by AKA above. Have not heard of M1's making a tour in Greece.

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Originally Posted by SUB VET II

Kikokat: Is your H@R a Greek return? Re: Comment by AKA above. Have not heard of M1's making a tour in Greece.

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It is my understanding that most of the last 90,000 or so Garands the CMP received were returns from Greece. That is also why the CMP had/has millions of rounds of Greek 30-06, the Greeks no longer needed it.

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Didn't want to hijack another thread, but I too have questions regarding the use of SA parts on HRA rifles. Don't know too much about Garands, and would appreciate any help you gents can provide.
I have a papered CMP Service Grade HRA #57818xx with a 3-52 barrel that appears all original and correct except the following:
1. Trigger group 6528290-SA is all SA, and appears original
2. Walnut stock has a serifed "P" in a circle, and a small crossed cannon ordnance stamp, but NO DAS stamp.
Is it possible/likely that the rifle is all original, or that the stock and/or trigger group have been swapped out? I'm told that HRA did get some trigger groups from SA at some point. Don't know if the stock was a replacement or not.
Thanks for any info/education you all can provide on this one. In any event, the rifle is mint, and a definite keeper.
Regards,
John

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CMP does not remove barrels. Your barrel is correct for that vintage of H&R receiver.

Your stock and trigger guard were swapped out. At CMP. CMP has so many original rifles, some in better condition than others, that to prevent any complaints from folks who pay $1000.00 for an all correct/matching version, they swap parts on the lower grades.

That is why your rifle appears to be so new. It was. A late Model SA went out the door with your trigger group.

Both of your rifles had some defect, like metal dings, finish wear, that they were not reserved as a high grade/high dollar rifle.

I highly recommend going down to CMP South. Once there, you see these racks of standard grade rifles, obviously unissued, some metal wear, and yet the stock, operating rod, bolt, trigger guard are incorrect, (pick the part and the combination, but it is usually a minimum of two swapped parts) . Unless you are exceptionally clueless, it is obvious what they are doing. So, go down there with a bud, like I have, buy some really nice rifles, and swap parts out in the parking lot.

If you attempt to swap parts before purchase, they will toss you out and never let you back in.

CMP will remove exceptional factory stocks and reserve them for the all matching rifles they sell at exceptional prices. That is why it is rare to get a really good HRA, SA, IHC stock on a lower grade rifle.

Even good stocks are getting rarer. They always were rare. If you went to CMP North this year, you saw a couple of racks of $950-995 late model SA rifles. These rifles were all correct or mostly correct, with unissued parts and new aftermarket wood. These were rifles that were otherwise unissued, but the wood was bashed.

Al in MN: Good info. Any way to distinguish a Greek Rtn. from U.S issue.?

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Originally Posted by SUB VET II

Al in MN:...... Any way to distinguish a Greek Rtn. from U.S issue.?

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SV,

If it hasn't been refinished, no.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SUB VET II

Al in MN: Good info. Any way to distinguish a Greek Rtn. from U.S issue.?

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I will attempt to reply.

The answer is no. Absolute no. Perhaps if you knew the end of the US inventory and when the CMP began shipping Greeks, and you had the CMP paperwork. Maybe you could figure the inventory change.

The o3's and A3's, they were refinished. The Garands that I have seen, and it is has been hundreds, are absolutely the way they left US inventory.

That includes the arsenal rebuilds. No funny Greek stampings, no Italian parts (Dannish), no nothing.

And in my opinion, these are American rifles just like the rifles that came direct from US inventory.

I do not recall any US inventory rifles having aftermarket wood.

The Greek rifles had more excellent condition late production SA's and HRA's than what came out of US inventory.

The CMP sold out of USGI M1s a few years ago. The Greek M1s are a mixed blessing. The Rack and most of the Field Grades look rattier than anything that was in the US inventory. Unissued Arsenal rebuilds are very rare BUT there is a treasure trove of unissued or barely used post-war SAs and HRAs.
From what I've seen, most of the greek ISSUED M1s will have the serial # stamped on the stock. Also, the Greeks used what appears to be a black oxide metal finish. The "look" varies from black spray paint to blueing. My only problem with the Greek returned M1s is that the issued M1s were not maintained to the standard as USGI M1s. I got this impression from what I've seen at the North Store over the years. I wouldn't hesitate to order a Service Grade M1.

Your stock appears to be a WW2 Vintage SA from 1944-45. The 3/16" ordinance wheel is thought to have been a stock acceptance mark from that time period.

The 466XXXX series could have WWII parts, op rod,op rod catch,clip latch, hammer. Could have been SA or WRA.

If the H&R has DCM papers that would distinguish it as not being a Greek return as I believe the DCM was replaced by CMP before the Greeks returned any M1s

Papers are CMP dated 12-03, and make no mention of Greek origin.

kikokat,

I couple of things suggest your rifle is not of Greek origin. I don't think the rifles returned from from Greece came back to the CMP before 12-03. Second, I think I have heard the observation that no HRAs as late as the 5.7 million range went to Greece. It is not uncommon for original 5.7 million HRAs to have 1952 dated HRA barrels as other posters have previously mentioned. You can also see SA barrels on a few original HRAs in this serial number range. The few I have seen have been 1953 SA barrels, late 1953 barrels if I remember correctly. I doubt any other SA part could be original in this fairly late HRA.

Mike,

Thanks for your observations regading my HRA. As you noted, consensus would indicate it's probably not a Greek return. Also that the barrel is likely original.
I have no doubt the SA stock was probably added at CMP, or perhaps prior, but is not original to the rifle. I had been told previously that it was possible the SA trigger group may have been original as HRA did run short of some parts on the later rifles and got some parts from SA. Not too likely apparently.
I have no plans to change anything in any event. It's a beatiful looking and shooting rifle as it came, and I'm quite happy with it.
I want to thank you and all the other gentlemen who were kind enough to offer their knowledge and experience.
Best regards,
John

i ordered a greek HRA as soon as they where listed for sale and got it in a week, my data sheet shows 6/14/04. that doesnt mean greeks may have shipped out sooner.also i worked at the NS 1 day.i helped rebox about 200 HRA's and many had only 1 item from being correct.HTH Semper Fi Al

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Originally Posted by Mike in NC

kikokat,

I couple of things suggest your rifle is not of Greek origin. I don't think the rifles returned from from Greece came back to the CMP before 12-03. Second, I think I have heard the observation that no HRAs as late as the 5.7 million range went to Greece. It is not uncommon for original 5.7 million HRAs to have 1952 dated HRA barrels as other posters have previously mentioned. You can also see SA barrels on a few original HRAs in this serial number range. The few I have seen have been 1953 SA barrels, late 1953 barrels if I remember correctly. I doubt any other SA part could be original in this fairly late HRA.

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In reference to the SA barrel use on late HRA:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...is_00414-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...is_00415-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...is_00416-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000191-1.jpg

I had never fired old 157 until recently, took it out to the range and fired 5 clips. The old girl will shoot, LC69 grouped very well and my match load of 168SMK even better, much better. The old timers here will remember this from the old forum, thought it was worth bringing up again since we were on the subject.

An interesting side note, look at the bolt, somebody nervous stamped the drawing number, look closely.

Bob Seijas did the data sheet for the article, I took the pics.