45-70 Remington Keenes!

Whilst taking photos (w/ a borrowed camera) of an '03 of mine, I couldn't resist these rare birds! Out of my area but, still, how often do you see these out in public?

An U.S. Army trials rifle!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00178-1.jpg

And! An U.S. Interior Dept. Indian scout carbine(?) Definitely been used a ton more than the Army trials rifle...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00183-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00181-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00182-1.jpg


Pardon the vaseline, I don't want to mess w/ other people's messes.

A manually cocked repeating bolt action? Somehow makes me think of a boy's rifle for giants!

Where is the trials one located? Is it for sale?

Keene was affiliated with General Ward and Bethel Burton; hence the more than obvious similarities to the WB rifles.

Ya, for sale it is. Out of my price range though. Its at the weekend hangout/ gunstore in Ga. that I haunt.

Third picture. Notice the WWK? William W. Kimball. That receiver was a Navy Keene when made.

Nice Keenes - The US Navy Keenes had 29 1/2 " barrels and the Army Keenes had 32 1/2' barrels. I have handled a US Navy Keene but never seen a Army Keene. What are the markings - any army or navy proofs? The USID Keene carbines were inspected by WWK as he was at E. Remington at the time and available. I will have to find my notes as a fellow RSA Reseacher found the information while reseaching the Remington revolvers sold to the Indian Police.

The Keene was the reason why James P. Lee went to Sharps to produce his rifle.E. Remiington & Sons were committed to the Keene and had spent a large sum to ready it for mass production. All that went down the tubes as the Keene failed to interest the military. Lee returned to E. Remington when Sharps failed.

GeneM

No marks that I saw except a number on the left rear side of the action. If you want I'll try to find out more reasonably soon. (Not mine, oh well...)

I think it might go to the Ohio show coming up soon if it doesn't get snatched up before. (That's what I was told, but I've learned that things change quickly around here. I'd rather do a road trip to Allentown!)

j-

That was really interesting. I have seen lots of old photos of Indian police with their arms, but they were usually Trapdoor carbines. I'd love to know where that USDI carbine was issued and what kinds of calls it was taken out on. That period was an interesting one, with the traditional ways still very much alive even as the new world order was tightening its grip on the Indian peoples.

A good example: Navajo headman Manuelito, who had been an enforcer in the old days, became a leader of the Navajo Police after the 1868 Treaty. He was a strong man in the war against the witches, in the early 1880's when the skinwalkers had almost taken over Navajo community life.

Who knows what that carbine would say if it could talk?

jn

Its tempting to take home, that's for sure. Its not even hugely expensive, but I've overspent enough already! Bore's not perfect, however I suspect it'll still shoot acceptably well.

I've always kind of preferred original arms w/ "character" over like new specimens just for the very reason that someone actually utilized and depended on them. It also shows in the case of these "develpmental" designs that they were capable of taking the punishment of real world use.

ETA- Too Late - show's over. Don't know what found new homes yet.

The Keenes are off to Ohio as of right now (18:30EDT) to be at the big show there. I'd go, but I'm tapped out!

Oh, yeah, along for the ride are other goodies (about 40 in all) including an 1868 50-70, a Ward-Burton, a Chaffee-Reese, a triangular ramrod bayonet trapdoor, at least one Spencer rifle(built from a carbine)- possibly a Gettysburg Spencer Rifle also, and a pile of other goodies.

Thanks for the pics, very cool! I didnt even know there was a musket version!

Did the Army ever look at the Borchardt or High Wall rifles?

Sharps-Borchardts were just too late to have an impact, I reckon, but they're surely a great design. I've had a couple over the years, but they just don't quite "fit" in my mad schemes. Only US military Winchester SS rifles I know of are the Low Wall Winder muskets in .22 short, but I haven't really been paying attention. Again, they were probably too late for US military consideration (1885), besides there simply was no real interest in upgrading to anything that came from outside the Armory system until that newfangled "smokeless" powder fad came along!

Got to shoot the USID carbine today! Not the best bullets(old store bought single lube groove 405gr I had languishing about), but it was enlightening to operate the action in a live fire situation. Feeding was so smooth you couldn't feel the round going into the chamber. Extractor didn't work at first but freed up after a few rounds.

Bore was a bit rough, so it tended to need cleaning every three rounds or it would miss a 2 foot sqare target at 100 yards. If you didn't worry about hitting anything its strangely satisfying to operate. "Boo-coo" smoke and fire and shell cases flying aboot, interrupted by the annoying manual cocking operation.

BTW, the Army trials Keene is still for sale, and recently reduced in price. PM me if you're interested and I'll get you in touch w/ the parties involved. I'm not making anything on the deal, just think it ought to find a good home.

I ended up w/ the USID carbine, I reckon that's all I can handle!


Done been sold, it has.

very nice indeed.