thinking about buying some surplus 7.62x54R. what is the best solvent to use so i don't have to worry about pitting in the bore. thanks.
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thinking about buying some surplus 7.62x54R. what is the best solvent to use so i don't have to worry about pitting in the bore. thanks.
Hot water and lots of it.
I use hot water and Tide.
and a long necked funnel.Quote:
Originally Posted by bearhunter
Nah, if it's hot enough it'll dry quick anyway.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Pattern14
Actually, the only rifle I don't bother with a funnel is my VZ58. No wood to worry about on it.
while the bore is still hot hot, then some Sweets (mostly water), then some break free, but usually I DON'T SHOOT THE STUFF (in enfields anyway) because there isn't any real need to do so, plus much of the cordite is "click-bang-confeitti" and far from precision ammo! LOL
Butch's Bore Shine: there's water in the mix for the corrosive priming and it does a great job of removing jacket fouling. Bores cleaned previously with Ed's Red still show a bunch of crud on patches soaked with Bore Shine. (Disclaimer: I do not own stock in the company, am not an employee and have received no compensation for this post.)
Strange, I spoke with the original inventor owner ( Charles ) of Butch’s years ago, we talked about how it almost got named Bore Squeak. He disclosed no water in the formula to me. It would have been next to impossible for Butch’s to past the 3M Laboratories three month barrel soak test if it had water in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BerdanIII
Edit: I stand corrected. BerdanIII you are correct. I am down to my last bottle of original Butch’s from BBS Billings Montana. Yesterday I purchased a new bottle now made by Lyman. Sure enough the new label list water (7732-18-5).
You ARE right. Butch's has a dash of ammonia for the copper that Ed's lacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by BerdanIII
One fellow has prepared Ed's Red with Strong Ammonia (from janitorial supply store) to Make Ed's PINK and it works well, but I prefer MilTec Pro or it's Hoppe's re-badged counterpart : Hoppe's Elite foam aerosol
Excellent product uses ammonia as a salt (Ammonium Oleate, I think) but it's got no odor and works well
yodar
I have a small bottle (maybe 1.5 oz) with 1/2 ammonia 1/2 water along with a Swiss cleaning kit that has a sectional cleaning rod. Just squirt some of the ammonia on a cleaning patch, run the patch through the bore. Then run a dry patch through. When I get home I clean the rifle normally. Never had a problem.
Ballitstol. I use a 50/50 mix with water at the range and use it full strength with a normal cleaning at home. One of the few products that will emulsify with water instead of seperating. The black powder folks also like it. Have had excellent results w/o using hot water. hth.
I use a 50/50 mix of ammonia and water at the range and finish up normally at home with Hoope's #9. Thats been working well for some time now for my Mosin-Nagant.
How can you tell if you have corrosive ammo?
EPR16
Don't clean it after shooting, wait a couple of weeks, and look down the barrel. If it looks like the Amazon rain forest inside- it's corrosive.
A lot of corrosive ammunition today is military surplus or stuff from countries I have trouble spelling.
Actually, don't worry if it's corrosive, just make sure you flush the barrel with hot water after shooting, let it dry and oil it. You'll be fine and the barrel will appreciate and love you for it.
Pattern14,
Thanks for the advice. Please forgive the silly question but I have never flushed a barrel of any gun with water. Is there a proper way so I don't damage parts? I assume I should remove the bolt and use a funnel and pour from the bolt end and exit the barrel?
Just want to make sure I am not missing something since I am new to all this.
Thanks again
Aaron
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattern14
That's how it's done. I have a funnel with a long neck that fits into the receiver and takes the place of the bolt. I made it with a plastic funnel and a length of 1/2" diameter PVC pipe. When you pour just make sure you do it slowly otherwise the water will go everywhere. If the water is hot enough the barrel will dry quickly and when it cools you can clean normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPR16
Perfect, big thanks! I know exactly which funnel I will use. I have one that I use for my motorcycle which is curved and will fit great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattern14
A lost chore skill that was promptly forgotten, it seems, in the 1960's (as far as the USA goes...). Darn shame because it's quite easy.
I can't begin to tell you how many otherwise fantastic rifles I've seen in the past 20 years that have newly RUINED bores due to missing this little cleaning task..:ugh::banghead::bitch:.
This "EVEEL" corrosive residue is by and large nothing more than potassium cloride- the "heart healthy" salt substitute sold at the grociers.
Completely and easily dissolved by plain old H2O.
Additives may help to "wet" the bore surface.
OIL WON'T HELP YOU HERE!............................................. . Rant mode OFF...
I shoot corrosive exclusively in my Nagants, and only clean with regular old Break-Free CLP. Never had any issues.
Shot many a round of corrosive milsurp ammo, cheapest thing to do at the range is bring a bottle of Windex or similar cleaner, when you are done for the day and the barrel has cooled a bit! Verify a Clear and Safe Weapon then just pour some down the barrel, I have also put my finger on the end of the barrel poured down the breach and shook it a bit. Just the really funny stares you get from others on the range tend to minimize that action. Of course you can wet a cloth patch and run it down the barrel as well. A good cleaning when you get home is a MUST. Now if you have the time of course break it down and clean it while you are at the range if that is possible or allowed.
A clean weapon is a reliable weapon! :super:
Actually buddyjaet,Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyjaet
The cheapest thing to use is water- at least until water is depleted on this planet.
Treat all 7.62x54R as corrosive and you will be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPR16
If you want to see if it is corrosive, Pull a bullet from a round and dump out the powder. Load the empty case into a rifle, hold the muzzle up to a piece of metal and pull the trigger. Put the piece of metal outside for a couple days. The piece of metal will rust instead of your barrel.
If it doesn't say non corrisve on the packaging it is. But like the man says treat all 7.62 x54r and all the 5.45x39 as corrosive. It most probably is.Quote:
Originally Posted by EPR16
I just use Windex, then Hoppes #9.
beerchug:
It's Potassium Cloride(KCl) residue- It acts exactly like Sodium Cloride (NaCl) your regular old table salt.
Water w/soap(to lower surface tension) washes it out.
That's it. Nothing fancy. Don't worry!
Hot water (w/ soap optional) is even better.
-Old style Windex is fine- lots of water w/ soap, sometimes ammonia- don't use the vinegar(or other acid types like citrus) version!
-Ammonia(NH3) is OK- if you don't let it sit for too long! It's also mostly water, and the ammonia acts on the COPPER fouling fairly effectively.
-Petroluem based oils by and large do nothing to eliminate the salt, but they can coat the surfaces enough to form a barrier to water vapor, for a while. Sooner or later, depending on viscocity of the oil, temperature, hunidity, etc. the water vapor will get to the salt and the bad rust monster will visit.
-There are some colliodial water/oil mixes that may do for cleaning, but tend to be more expensive.
Some references shamelessly stolen off the internet:
Hygroscopy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Potassium chloride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Percussion cap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Don't make me go and get Edward Horton!
ETA some more, because I just can't let go..
The Ballistol oil and cleaning product recommends up to a 90% water/ 10% Ballistol emulsion for cleaning suspect firing residue.
If you must add something to the water rinse step, make sure its an alkaline substance rather than acidic.
If for some reason there's aluminum about keep the alkaline stuff away from it- it will tend to start corrosion there- its roughly the opposite of steel as far as corrosion tendencies go.
[QUOTE=
Don't make me go and get Edward Horton!
[/QUOTE]
Please no!:D
I think he could do a very good job, actually!
If you can find some original GI bore cleaner it works great. You can find it once in awhile. i had a friend that gave me 2 cans of it. He bought a box a few years back.
WWII GI bore cleaner is the only thing I've used for corrosive primers. Works great and I've never had a problem.
I just bought a case of 72 6oz. cans. Several lifetimes supply.
As much as I hate to say it Sigman if that rifle survived WW2 and Korea and wasn't lend lease it was probably destroyed by either Carter or Clinton in their purge of evil unneeded raffles. I hope I'm wrong and you find it before your dad follows his buddies to the last battle.
In a semi-auto, You'd have to get at the gas tube also, right ?
Only four rifles w/"proper" gas tubes come to mind immediately- Ar15/M16, AG42b, the Hakim, and the Rashid. Of the lot only the Hakim and Rashid would be commonly fired w/ "corrosive" primed ammo, and I've never seen any problems with those. However, they were intended to be used in very arid climates, so the potassium cloride residue wouldn't be able to "attract" much moisture to start the rust process.Quote:
Originally Posted by ropewalker1
The gas tubes themselves in the above examples are non-heat treatable stainless steel, and are themselves likely to be resistant to rust through in the normal lifespan of the weapon.
Not a bad idea to flush out the rest of works, though, just to keep the gas port and block from pitting.
Most all other semi-auto rilfes of older design were generally set up to be "easy" to disassemble for cleaning purposes, but some are better than others- it seems G/K43s often have "rooted" gas ports- and they tend to be "overgassed" in the first place.
Note that the M1 carbine was designed from the outset to use non-corrosive primers, as the tappet system used is not field servicable. The M1 Garand was "ruggedized" by making the gas cylinder etc. from stainless steel- expensive at the time, but worth it!
If it will be a while between using corrosive ammo and getting home where I can clean the rifle, a bottle of Windex comes in really handy. It neutralizes all the corrosive salts and makes the gunk stay soft until I can clean it at home.
Hoppes was specifically designed to neutralize all the corrosive stuff, and it is really cheap. Windex is even cheaper. The cheapest cleaner is a bucket of scalding hot soapy water.
As noted above, the hotter the water, the better it is. When the water is really hot, it heats up the metal so that the heat helps evaporate off any remaining water. Then just use oil on both inside and outside parts that were exposed to water. Lots of people neglect to protect metal that is underneath wood, and that almost always results in rust that you don't see until it is far too late.