What is the concensus of opinion on this ammo? Good, Bad, indifferent? I usually break it down, save the powder and primed cases, then re load with 30M72 bullet after trimming and neck sizing the cases.
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What is the concensus of opinion on this ammo? Good, Bad, indifferent? I usually break it down, save the powder and primed cases, then re load with 30M72 bullet after trimming and neck sizing the cases.
you get some clean stuff latch on to it. LC69 seem better.
IMO, the LC seems a little "soft" as far as speed compared to the Greek HXP. Still OK, though. Good brass. Just my $0.02
Just curious. Why would you break down perfectly good surplus ammo? Why not shoot it then reload it with the other bullets you have? Seems like a lot of work when you have perfectly good ammo just sitting there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosine26
I did not find 30M2 ball bullet to be accurate. 30M72 Match bullet combined with the case and powder was equivalent to 30 M 72 Match ammo. Shot very well in M1 and bolt guns.
Selling the pulled bullets? Stu
I had a lot of short stroking problems with the the LC. StuQuote:
Originally Posted by Liftrat
Ok, I get that you want more accurate ammo, don't we all right? But why not just trade the ammo or sell it and use the proceeds to buy brass, powder, ect and load up a match load for your rifle? Why not shoot the surplus for practice and then just reload the cases? If you have a match gun, I understand but if you have a CMP shooter, then well, shoot the LC ammo and reload more accurate ammo the next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosine26
By all means, it's your time and ammo but this doesn't make sence to me.
BTW, I have never had a short stroke problem with any LC ammo in any of my 6 garands.
I would also like to know what you do with the bullets.
The LC 68 M2 Ball in question was issued by the DCM in the late 70’s or early 80’s before the demise of the DCM. It was issued for the required annual qualification of club members. I served as a line officer at these matches for many years. The members used some of their own personal rifles or one of the six DCM issued M1’s. I never saw any problem with “short stroking” of any of the M1’s.
A number of years ago, the Army Ordnance department ran a series of tests in which they showed that use of boat tailed bullets extended the life of a rifle barrel when compared to flat based bullets; therefore I always used boa t tail bullets in my NM M1 or my bolt Match rifles. As I remember the test, they showed that flat based bullets showed a slight improvement up to about 2000 rounds then started falling off in accuracy. Boat tailed bullets showed a continued dramatic improvement in accuracy up to about 2000 rounds and a slow improvement up to about 10,000 rounds then started falling. These tests were run while developing the M72 bullet for the post war M72 30 caliber Match ammo and the M118 7.62 mm ammo.
Of the service bullets I have used none matched the Accuracy of the M72. The worst being the four piece bullet used in 7.62 mm M59 ammo. I was never able to get very good accuracy with the 147 grain bullet used in M80 ball ammo with one exception; that was one lot of TW 67 M80 ball. I always believed that the bearing surface provided by the short 147 grain bullet caused it to be a bit unstable. Perhaps in a 1 in 12 twist barrel it was OK. In the 1 in 10 twist barrels the bullet was over stabilized according to ballistics tests. Some of the 30 M2 AP was very accurate. One lot of DEN 42 M2 AP would shot right up there with M72 out to 600 yards.
As for the pulled bullets I have a quantity of them stored somewhere in the garage. They include the M2, M59, M80 and M2 ball bullets plus some LC M2 AP stuff. Why did I not sell the M2 ammo and buy better components? There was not much of a market for surplus military ammo in those days. 30 M72 bullets were available for about two cents apiece through the DCM so it was very economical to simply re work the M2 cases and reuse all of the components (primer and powder). Quite satisfactory ammo could be produced using this procedure for 200 and 300 yard ranges, For 600 and a 1000 yards, I always used 180 ,190,or 200 grain match bullets by Sierra, Western, Norma , etc; though I found that with an M1, carefully loaded match equivalent hand loads were satisfactory. I have one Titus barreled M70 in 30-06 that really liked the M72 bullets and would shoot sub MOA with them. I remember one day when an “expert” told me that the M72 bullet would not shoot. I shot two ten shot groups off the bench that measured less than 2 ½ inches at 300 yards with iron sights much to his chagrin.
I guess I have rambled on long enough. ,
Well, for the most part, they won't. I have a Kreiger barreled M70 that is a sub-MOA rifle, and the M72 is a 1.25MOA bullet in it. Modern commercial HPBT bullets will shoot rings around the M72. That's why they Mexican-matched M118 Match ammo with the 168SMK bullet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosine26
Don
Your point is well taken. There are now and were then better bullets than the 30 M72; however we digress. The original question was “Why breakdown and reload the LC 68 Ball?”
The LC 68 ball was free and 30 M72 bullets were available for about two cents a bullet. With a little effort; trimming the cases to a uniform length and neck sizing, weighing the bullets to a + or - 0.1 grain, and keeping the powder charge to + or – 0.1 grain one could load reasonably accurate target loads suitable for practice, DCM qualifications and local matches which rarely exceed 300 yards. The 30 M72 bullet has a better BC than does the 30 M2 and is generally more uniform and is easier on barrels (according to FA tests). Practicing with ammo of unknown accuracy is an exercise in futility.
I have (29) sealed 20 rd. boxes of LC National Match ammo dated from 59 thru 68. One box marked National Rifle and Pistol matches Camp Perry, Ohio. Looking for fair offer plus shipping or FTF would be the best. Located close to Ft. Hood, TX.
Back in the day when I actually went to the range, the old hands there called your handloads Mexican Match. Not at all an uncommon procedure.
Years ago I was firing my 1919A6 and when we got to the Vietnam Era Lake City ammo, it was a little off speed in operation. I asked around about it and one of the ammo guys at a gun show told me that M2 ball produced during that time period was slightly lighter. It was designed to help the South Vietnamese, who were generally smaller in size.
Can not confirm it but the MG was slightly slower compared to the WWII and 1950's ball.
In my rifles, HXP shoots slightly more accurately than any LC I've used so far, incl. NM. That said, I've never had any functioning issues with LC, either.
Charlie