Someone's telling me the USMC on my Sedgley barrel doesn't stand for US Marine... could that be right?
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Someone's telling me the USMC on my Sedgley barrel doesn't stand for US Marine... could that be right?
It is a little confusing. M1917 bolts will be found marked USMC. NOT the United States Marine Corps. Sedgley did make many '03 barrels for the Marine Corps. They will be found on many WWII dated '03 barrels. A little confusing.
Sedgley contracted with Winchester (and maybe others) to make barrels for the Marines. The USMC on the Sedgley barrel stands for "United States Marine Corps" and there should be a "S" in a circle also. Most of the ones mounted by the Marines will have a 1941 date.
The shoe company didn't really need the barrels:-).
Jim.
usmc on a M1917 bolt is United Shoe Machine Company
usmc on a 1903 barrel, is a Sedgley made barrel, and was made for the US Marines,
however, having said barrel on your rifle doesnt make it a Marine issue rifle.
more confused???lol.
You are misinformed. :slap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
J.B.
Hey paratrpr,
I was confused about that a while back and J.B. asked what I was smokin' and he set the record straight. Those barrels are Marine.
Can we see photos of your rifle, maybe it IS a USMC? That starts other interestin' issues.
Regards,
Lancebear
over the last 10 years iv installed more then a few USMC barrels,.
you can bet, those rifles arent Marine rifle,s.
again, a USMC barrel, doesnt make it a Marine rifle.
just a 1903 with a post war replacement barrel, and maybe a bent barrel to boot.
I thought the USMC bbls were war production spares. Are they post-war? Chris
towards the end, most were bent and sold as scrap.
A series of letters were sold on eBay about a year ago, maybe more, that appeared to be correspondance between Sedgley and Winchester over WRA making the USMC barrels. Did I miss something, or just mis-interpret the letters?:wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beard
Jim:cool:
I have two barrel contracts for Sedgley:
Marine Corps (Navy Funded) April thru Aug 1942
Army Feb thru Dec 1944
These dates are payment dates and may vary from production by a month or two.
I have no records of the barrels being sub-contracted. If they were sub-contracted, my records would show the location of manufacture different from the location of government payment.
It is possible the letters were a request for quote, which never occurred.
Bill,
I just found a Congressional Inquiry that indicates Sedgley was making barrels in 1934 and earlier (for Marlin machineguns). I also discovered he was known as "Sidewalk" Sedgley.
Thanks for the input. I am going to check those contracts, but I can't find them just now. Wrong harddrive.
Jim
Odd, Sedgley was making very good barrels in the mid-30's but when the war came they asked Winchester to make '03 barrels. Mind you, Winchester was up to its hips in Carbine and Garand production. But, somehow found time to make up '03 barrels. Odd.
Sedgley was thought by many to be an arms dealer to countries not our friends, as if they others didn't do the same thing. Sedgley made many things for the PDofS, like knives.
Jim
You misinterpreted the letters. :madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
That's the great thing about documentation. It's highly subject to misinterpretation! M1903 reference books are full of it!!!! :bash:
Sedgley did indeed buy barrels from Winchester. You assumed that they bought them for the USMC. Bad assumption! :nono:
J.B. :wave:
The one letter (dated Feb 13, 1941) I have from Sedgley to WRA, states ‘made to the Springfield contour’ nothing more exact.
Bill
I at one time (in 69 & 70) I opened or was present when about 30 crates of USMC marked Sedgley 03 barrels were opened.. Inside each crate was an inspection form with a Contract No. of NOm-38963 and a date, and the USMC inspector's name.. The one slip I kept, has a date of 9/25/43 on it, not sure if that is date of packing or contract.
Each one of the crates had 16 barrels, not in tubs but between heavy sheets of Kraft Paper.
45B20
Hmmmm. I can see why I would make the assumption Winchester was making 03 barrels for Sedgley, because I think I have a copy of your letter. They very well could have been 03 barrels, just not necessarily the Circle S USMC barrels.
I had in my mind that Sedgley had gotten behind in his USMC contract and had sub-contracted to Winchester for barrels to fill it. I have no idea where I got that idea, as all that data is on another harddrive. I have a filing problem.
Jim
I looked up contract 38963. It was Feb 43 thru June 44. It was a contract for "Rifle Parts", indicating that the clerk reading the contract for this report saw a variety of items and consolidated them into the term Rifle Parts.Quote:
I at one time (in 69 & 70) I opened or was present when about 30 crates of USMC marked Sedgley 03 barrels were opened.. Inside each crate was an inspection form with a Contract No. of NOm-38963 and a date, and the USMC inspector's name.. The one slip I kept, has a date of 9/25/43 on it, not sure if that is date of packing or contract.
Each one of the crates had 16 barrels, not in tubs but between heavy sheets of Kraft Paper
I have seen many contracts covering more than one type of item.
Thanks to your information we now know that this contract also covered Sedgley barrels.
Hope the information helps.
heard some place that Sedgly used the worn equipment from Avis barrel co.
makes you think what quality one may get with S barrel
The whole "Sidewalk" Sedgley nickname was a deliberate smear by members of the Nye Committee. They came right out and implied that Sedgley was selling machineguns off the sidewalk like a common street thug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
Sedgley regularly ran ads in the American Rifleman during the 1930s, showing his custom rifles. These ads stated that his business was established in 1897. Some point out that 1897 was actually the date that Henry M. Kolb claimed for the establishment of his gunmaking firm, where at some point Sedgley became the manager. In 1916, Sedgley bought out Kolb, and renamed the business after himself. It should be noted that Sedgley was significant enough that the New York Times printed his obituary when he died in 1938.
The local (to me) version of the company only just ceased trading
I have a machine of theirs 3 feet from where I'm sitting - they were called (here) the British United Shoe Machinery Co. Ltd - or BUSM Co for short
Given that Singer made sewing machines AND gun parts - I don't see how the United Shoe Machinery Co. would NOT have been asked to also contribute
The mix up over initials reminds me of how a lot of Third Reich souvenir collectors were fooled into paying for plates & crockery with the monogram of DR - for the Waffen SS "Das Reich" division
...until someone realised that this Division must have had 7 course meals 5 times a day given the amount of items about with the DR mark.
Turned out to be the mark of the German Railway!