Desiring M1 Carbine knowledge

Hello, I recently found this site and it looks like it's full of good information and knowledge. I am interested in knowing as much as I can about a carbine I have. I have looked for identifying marks on the exposed parts I can see and they are as follows:

Barrel: Underwood over 3-44
Receiver: 2676... and under the ser. no. is a "B"
Bottom of trigger guard: "O"
Rear sight side: I.R.CO. 7160060
Stock markings:
-left side of stock is stamped with ser. no. that matches receiver
-In sling slot on ramp: "10"
-Top left corner of stock near receiver: "5 0"
-Under stamped ser. no.: O.G. inside of a box

It also has a bayonet lug and swivel safety.

Are there any other locations I can obtain identifying marks that would help with your diagnosis?

And, thank you to the experts here for helping me understand what I have.

Skyman

I am far from an expert like the others on the board, but it sounds a lot like my Underwood. The B, I believe, means the receiver was subcontracted by Singer. It is a typical post war mixmaster. What size are the numbers stamped in the stock that match the receiver serial number? Are they on the left side of the butt stock and is there white paint (or traces) in the numbers?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...40314562-1.jpg

It sounds like it was an Israeli "Mash Az" volunteer police weapon, that was re-imported. That's the info I got on mine back on the old forum (before it moved here). Mine has a pristine bore, about a 1 on the muzzle, and can do clover leafs at 25 yards with Lake City ammo if I do my part. The nice thing about the Israeli weapons is the way they are serious about taking care of them, and the dry climate!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...erwood1a-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...derwood3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...derwood4-1.jpg

Thanks for the information. The ser. no. on the stock is in the same location as yours, though no remnants of paint in the impressions. There are no marks on the right side of the stock as on yours however. the other stock markings are on the left side as I indicated in the original post.

I also have an M4 bayonet like yours.

Skyman

Welcome to a new world of enjoyment! You have come to the right place for info. A bit more info would be good.Look under the rear site, manufacure would help. Pics are also good. The more info about your carbine posted, the more info we can give you.:beerchug:

Skyman,

M1 carbines are easy to disassemble and almost every part will have a manufacturer's code stamped on it. The vast majority have been rebuilt using parts from various manufacturers.

Here's a link to a site showing how to field strip it if you are so inclined.
(You will be!) :D

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/M1ca...pingserger.htm

Welcome to the addiction! (Affliction?) :lol:

~ Harlan

Harlan,

Aren't you the prankster. :madsmile:

You showed him how to take it down. Now he has all these parts on a bench and is trying to remember how they go back together. :banghead:

I know most things just go into reverse. But the are a few helpful hints.

That breakdown didn't show a bolt tool. I know they cost $30-40. A $5 trigger spring tool is faster then dental floss. And maybe someone with only one carbine doesn't feel the need to spend the money on these tools. That would be understandable.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

And I also use a cutdown pin to assemble the trigger, sear, sear spring, first outside of the housing. Then drop in into the housing, line up the hole and use a regular pin to push out the shorter one. I used to do it the way showed. It would beat up my finger tips and cuticles big time. Maybe my fingers are too fat. Works for me, maybe not everyone.

Showing trigger, sear, sear spring and short pin loose:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Showing trigger, sear, sear spring and short pin together:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Showing trigger, sear, sear spring and short pin dropping into trigger housing:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Showing short trigger pin being pushed out with long normal trigger pin:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

I use a bic ball point pen with the guts pulled out to R and R the trigger spring.
Handy and plenty of them laying around.

Charlie-painter777

Nice tip on the trigger assembly jim.
that sear spring can really fight back some days.

Charlie

Thanks gentlemen.

I've printed out the dissassembly instructions so we'll se how ambitious I get now.

I don't know about the special tools, but I can probably come up with that specialty "stripped out Bic pen" tool.

I will definitely look under the rear sight to find a manufacture name. The serial number does match the range assigned to Underwood according to a manufacture's list I saw elsewhere. I don't guess the matching stock ser. no. means anything? That was probably added later as an inventory control measure? The numbers appear to be hand imprinted one at a time like in iamarangemaster's post above.

Iamarangemaster, what clues you in to it being a re-import from Isreal?

Thanks again,

skyman

OK, I checked under the rear sight and the receiver is marked "underwood". So the barrel and receiver match manufacture. How do you determine if it's the original stock? The matching serial no. stamped on the stock isn't original, correct?

I think my Underwood has a NPM stock, but they were often swapped around, especially after the war. The matching serial number on the stock was a common Israeli addition, so it was probably applied after the stock was swapped.

How does yours shoot? Mine, as I said, is the tightest shooting carbine I have ever owned. Of course, I generally only own one M1 Carbine at a time, though I try to always have one continuously for over 27 years, now.

Skyman,
Your carbine falls into the 2nd assigned serial number block for Underwood. Which starts with serial# 2,352,520-2,912,519, we commonly call this the Underwood 2 million block. Things start getting a little tricky with this block. At this time during production Underwood was having to have Sub Contractors make receivers for them. Just to keep up with production. To make matters even more confusing there was a overlap while they were building the later part of their 4 million serial block. So basically both the 2 and 4 million blocks were being made at one point at the same time.
The thing to remember about the 2 million block is that most of these were sub contracted receivers. 4 companies supplied these receivers.

Please note these numbers and dates are aprox...

The T marked receivers made by Intertype....
Serial numbers 2,355,000-2,400,000 were made from late June of 43 to mid April of 44.

The W marked receivers made by Universal Windings....
Serial range.. 2,401,000-2,491,000 made from early Nov 43 to early April of 44.

The S marked receivers made by United Shoe MFG,
Serial range 2,577,000-2,599,000 made from early July of 43 to the last of January of 44.

The B marked receivers made by Singer MFG,
Serial range 2,630,000-2,655,000 made from early August of 43 to late March/early April of 44.

The end of this serial block was credited to Underwood making the last receivers from 2,700,000-2,912,519. These were made from August of 43 to April of 44.

It's important to note that during this 2 million serial block that Winchester reportedly bought thousands of receivers from Underwood.

There is a over lap while building all of the sub contract receivers ( T, W,S,B) and production of Underwoods 4 million serial block. The 4 million block was started about Dec of 42 and ran until about the end of Sep of 43. Underwood then started back up and completed the last of the 4 mil block from Feb of 44 to early April of 44.

I know this gets confusing...but bottom line- Underwood was building some assigned serial number blocks at the same time out of sequence.

Your Stock,
If your stock is marked OI in the slingwell it is a stock made by the S.E. Overton Co for Inland Div of General motors. It would be a replacement stock.
Unless it's been worn or sanded off it should have a Ordnance Stamp on the right side near the oiler slot we call a Crossed Cannon Cartouche. The 'Avatar' I use is a Inland stamp.
Your carbine sounds as though it is a rebuild. The original stock may have been damaged thus it was replaced.

Your Barrel,
Falls with in the correct time frame and more than likely is the original.

Your Serial Number,
The charts I have show that B coded receivers only go up as high as 2,655,000. You report your's is a 2,676,xxx. Look closely at the stamped UNDERWOOD name on your receiver. Make sure it doesn't have a line struck thru it.
Either way a coded Underwood carbine makes for a nice keeper.

If your just starting out collecting carbines. I suggest you buy the book;

U.S, M1 Carbines,
Wartime
Production.
By Craig Riesch
It's a paperback that runs under $20. Well worth having around to get started with.

Enjoy that carbine...
please share pictures...

HTH
Charlie-painter777

Skyman,
A couple last things....
If you plan to break your carbine down. I wouldn't worry about taking the gas piston and nut off. If the piston moves freely, you should be fine. Also grease the barrel in front of your bayo band. That way when you loosen it and slide it forward you won't scratch the barrel. If you don't have a bolt tool....DON'T try taking the bolt apart.
Don't remove the escutheon nut from the bottom of the stock. No reason to. It may very well chip or splinter the stock if you try.

HTH

Charlie-painter777

Imarangemaster, my carbine shoots nicely, I haven't grouped it yet, but I was repeatedly hitting (and busting up) a brick at 50 yds. I like those sights better than the open rears on my modern carbines.

Charlie, thanks for the details. That's a lot of good stuff there.

I double checked the receiver serial no. and it is 2676122. Doesn't seem to fall in any of the ranges you listed by the various receiver makers, though the barrel is dated March '44 It does say "UNDERWOOD" under the rear sight and I can't see any mark through it. And, there is a "B" stamped beneath the ser. no. on the receiver also.

The mark in the sling well reads IO, but I guess it could be read upside down? to get OI.

One other thing I didn't mention in the original post- there is a "P" stamped on top of the barrel about 1 1/2" below the barrel ser. no.

I will have to try and get a copy of the book.

Thanks again,

Skyman

Go to North cape publications for the book Charlie talked about.

Israel is known to have stamped the S/Ns on the stocks. I have an Italian return Underwood with the same treatment except for the numbers being stamped between the sling well and the butt plate. I suppose any using country could have done the same, so it probably doesn't mean much.
Enjoy it.

Phil

Oh, and Charlie I've noticed we've been seeing quite a few over-range serial numbers on the B code Underwoods. When I first listed my 2655510 on the Postman's list on the CMP forum it was a bit of an oddity. Not any more. Ain't Underwoods fun to track?

Phil

Hey Phil,
Your B code would be.......510 after the end of the list I have.
But Skyman has one at 2676122. By far the highest numbered B code I've heard about.
I might start a new post to see who can report the highest B code.

Thanks
Charlie

Charlie, Here are the latest over-range B-code S/Ns from The Postman's list:

2655510 Underwood (B)
2658611 Underwood (B)
2661567 Underwood (B)
2664913 Underwood (B)
2673584 Underwood (B)
2679249 Underwood (B)
2678691 Underwood (B)
2679815 Underwood (B)
2680688 Underwood (B)
2682354 Underwood (B)

Strange animals, these Underwoods.

Phil

Looks like my B code Underwood should be on that list. #2659753. I can send photo to someone if needed.

Imarangemaster,
You can set up a logon at CMP Home and go to CMP Forums for a bunch of great info. A bunch of the M1 Carbine posts are from newbies asking questions that we all asked years ago but there are some serious collectors there also.
You don't have to buy a rifle to become a member, but if you watch the sales page you just might own a "new" toy someday.
If you go to the CMP Forums/M1 carbines and look for the first post from "The Postman" you'll find the list. It's not confined to CMP sales. Just a serious collector gathering all the info he and the other collectors can.

Edit: While there take time to go through the "stickies" on that forum. "Steve." and others have posted a whole bunch of great info on stuff ranging from stock repairs and care to shooting.

See you there,
Phil

Yhank you, sir I will do that.