Weird place for a Lee Enfield receiver

I have just come back from a wonderful holiday back in England. During this much-needed vacation, I dragged my poor family around Bovington Tank Museum. One of the tanks, a Matilda Infantry Mark I A11, had Lee Enfield receivers as part of the smoke screen system (can't remember the exact term for it) on either side of the turret. The receivers looked like No.1 Mk.IIIs, but the only identification I could see was BSA stamped on the side. Imagine that in your collection - a Lee Enfield with tank attachment!

I must admit that I was amused by the smoke screen set up - the person in the turret would have to lean over, pull the trigger (probably while under fire), and hope he didn't get a smoke grenade in the face - British engineering at its finest! :p

For those of you who may be interested, I believe that I also witnessed the last flight of a British First World War bomber (Handley Page?) at Duxford, and was greeted when we arrived at the carpark by a fly over by a Spitfire and 2 Mustangs - it was a good day.

Correction - the person in the turret would have to pull the bolt back, load the receiver, push the bolt back, then pull the trigger - all while under fire and moving over rough terrain. No thanks, mate :)

Thats sportsmanlike, the opponent has his chance! Very british.

Regards

Gunner

We've trod the same ground. I went over in 2004 for the 60th, spent 17 days, half there half there. We went to Duxford and Cambridge on the front side, and made Wool and Bovington on the backside. Wool is a quant little town; we had a good time at the pub there, and at dinner, too. We arrived off the train at 1:30 PM, and the taxi found us a nice B&B, then we went to The Tank Museum. The smoke dischargers you saw are quite common, and are listed in Ian Skinnerton's tome. I saw, and almost bid on, a 10" discharger that was on eBay a while back. But not having a Matilda to mount it too, I passed. :rofl: We saw a very low flyover of their Mk IV Spit
(about gave me a hair cut it was so low!). You were lucky to see the bomber fly. I've wondered when these old birds will finally be roosted for good.

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

I have just come back from a wonderful holiday back in England. During this much-needed vacation, I dragged my poor family around Bovington Tank Museum. One of the tanks, a Matilda Infantry Mark I A11, had Lee Enfield receivers as part of the smoke screen system (can't remember the exact term for it) on either side of the turret. The receivers looked like No.1 Mk.IIIs, but the only identification I could see was BSA stamped on the side. Imagine that in your collection - a Lee Enfield with tank attachment!

I must admit that I was amused by the smoke screen set up - the person in the turret would have to lean over, pull the trigger (probably while under fire), and hope he didn't get a smoke grenade in the face - British engineering at its finest! :p

For those of you who may be interested, I believe that I also witnessed the last flight of a British First World War bomber (Handley Page?) at Duxford, and was greeted when we arrived at the carpark by a fly over by a Spitfire and 2 Mustangs - it was a good day.

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Ah, yes...., we gave Bovington a big handfull of those old 4"(?) smoke discharger thinggies, fired using a No1 action. Loading was by hand, outside the tank but firing was by remote bowden cable from inside! Things haven't changed much because the 6 barrel multi directional smoke dischargers you still see on tanks are loaded from the outside but fired (electrically this time) from inside the old Centurions, Chieftains, Ferrets et al.

I often thought about putting in a spoof suggestion, suggesting that there ought to be a little door in the side armour of the turret where the loader might stick his hand outside to re-load the smoke dischargers. Something like a cat flap...............

I don't think I have ever seen those things used. A quick hose down with the co-ax Browning or a couple of rounds of cannister would usually be enough to quell the most restless wild colonials or antipodeans

If anyone has a chance, the airborne museum is open at Duxford and, although small, is worth the visit. I went and drooled at the firearm displays. Not a pretty sight. Makes me want to fork out for a denison smock, but I would have to mortgage the kids....(no, wait, Obama has already done that...)

On an aside, the reproduction firearms on the HMS Warrior were manufactured by Parker and Hale - I was surprised to see their name stamped on the barrels.

I've been to Duxford to work on Stephen Grey's (The Fighter Collection) P-40 Tomahawk that Tom Wilson rescued out of Russia just after the Soviet collapse. (He's since sold it.) Got to see a real Bf-109g in action and saw the Bf109e ("Black 8"?) there just weeks before it got bent. Also the Beaufighter in pieces undergoing resurrection.

I think the taxi drivers over there know more history than school teachers do in the US!

Light Tank Mk.VI in Libya in December 1940, with a smoke discharger on the turret, fired by the aforementioned Bowden cable.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg

The Major must have been very cold to let himself be photographed with his F.S. Cap worn in this style - you hardly ever see it being done, despite the provision made for it in the design.

:beerchug:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Ah, yes...., we gave Bovington a big handfull of those old 4"(?) smoke discharger thinggies, fired using a No1 action. Loading was by hand, outside the tank but firing was by remote bowden cable from inside! Things haven't changed much because the 6 barrel multi directional smoke dischargers you still see on tanks are loaded from the outside but fired (electrically this time) from inside the old Centurions, Chieftains, Ferrets et al.

I often thought about putting in a spoof suggestion, suggesting that there ought to be a little door in the side armour of the turret where the loader might stick his hand outside to re-load the smoke dischargers. Something like a cat flap...............

I don't think I have ever seen those things used. A quick hose down with the co-ax Browning or a couple of rounds of cannister would usually be enough to quell the most restless wild colonials or antipodeans

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Some restless wild colonials might just get a litttle peeved and wind up with some dirty tricks of their own :bow::sos::beerchug:

Wouldn't smoke dischargers be meant to cover movements during an engagement and obscure the aime of enemy anti-tank weapons?

Talking of hard to reload, have you ever seen our Ontos?
Its a very small armorered vehicle with four large recoiless rifles mounted to the body.
Aimed and fired from inside but only reloadable from the outside. Still thats four heavy anti-tank rounds that could be fired in less time than reloading a tank main gun even once.


I suspect they had alternative methods of launching smoke grenades should they be unable to climb out, perhaps a GL fired through an open hatch.

PS
I have a collection of photos of the restoration of the Glacier Girl P-38. A friend visited the site where it was being rebuilt.

I'll see if I can dig out a photo of the beaufighter as it stands now. The Mosquito is my favorite of favorites, but I have a soft spot for the Beaufighter.

MKVII, that picture looks like it was taken with the major's own camera. Note the empty camera case on his belt.

That pistol looks like it has a cut out for a stock attachment on the butt. Mauser Broomhandle? I haven't seen that type of holster before either.

Good pic Mk7. Looks like he gave his camera to his crew-mate to take the picture for the wife. He's got a pair of old original No2 Binos too! Anyone have any idea what sort of tank it is?

Hey, no cheek from the wild antipodeans Bindi or we'll be forced to send a gun-boat round to sort you all out!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Alfred

PS
I have a collection of photos of the restoration of the Glacier Girl P-38. A friend visited the site where it was being rebuilt.

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Small world, there! I helped a little on the rebuild of its horizontal and vertical stabilizers when those parts were in Griffin, Ga. (several of the recovery team members live(d)) around there. Don Brooks (the ice drill inventor and early investor) lives about 1 1/2 hours south.

It looks like a .380" No2 Enfield that he's got in the picture. What looks like the cut-out for a shoulder stock seems to be the ribbing along the bottom of the frame.

I sure would like to view those photos of the Glacieer Girl Alfred if you have the time.

Post them for us....................burgie

The 4 inch smoke projector was the last gasp of many a 1910 Mk. III Ross rifle..

It's a Light Tank Mk.VI - a sort of militant pram on tracks with a Vickers gun.

I think we should arm ourselves with a couple more of these little tanks, take two or three of them to the US, Canada and Australia, and when the Colonials and Antipodeans get restless, then we can sort them out!

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Originally Posted by burgie

I sure would like to view those photos of the Glacieer Girl Alfred if you have the time.

Post them for us....................burgie

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I'll try to find them in the next few days, I'm cleaning up the storage rooms and they are in there somewhere.
I find I have quite a few photos that might be of interest, every thing from a light muzzle loading mountain gun with built in cassion I found in California to photos my sister took of arms museums in England ,Scotland, and Germany.

I used to take trips to museums around the US and fill many rolls of 35mm.
Many have yet to be developed.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I think we should arm ourselves with a couple more of these little tanks, take two or three of them to the US, Canada and Australia, and when the Colonials and Antipodeans get restless, then we can sort them out!

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I don’t think you’ll have much problem here in Canada. :surrender: Most of us have become quite used to immigrants with quaint ideas. ;) That is unless I spread the rumor you’re here to steel our beer, close Tim Horton’s and cancel the next hockey season. :nono:
Now as for the lads from my home land (I was born in the US) keep in mind what happen last time your lot came over for a visit. :rolleyes: The saying “there is a gun behind every blade of grass” is more true now than ever. Not that we’ll need them…we’ll just let all of the soccer moms (foot ball to you) run your wee little tanks off the road with our large American SUV and pick-ups. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Getting back on topic (was there ever a topic to this post???), what is the weirdest place you have seen or found Lee Enfield components? If they ended up on tanks, they probably ended up being cobbled together with other bits of equipment....

Hey, wierdest place for Lee Enfield components.......... My Friend and fellow Armourer Peter Smallwood was building his own house, very slowly over a couple of years and when he got to building the roof joists etc etc decided that he needed some really stout bolts to fix them all together. So if you look into the big old roof beams of his house, you'll see it all held together at the apex and elsewhere with big BSF hexagonal bolts, about 4" or so long, that look remarkably similar to No4 stock bolts!

Every Armourers tool box has assorted drifts made from No4 strikers and SLR pistons. I used SLR pistons to align the boot floor holes with the subframe when restoring my Mini Cooper. Sten gun, 'CAP, return spring' tabbed press-outs (have a look at your Sten, you'll see what I mean....) were used as locking tabs for Bedford truck and tank engines

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I think we should arm ourselves with a couple more of these little tanks, take two or three of them to the US, Canada and Australia, and when the Colonials and Antipodeans get restless, then we can sort them out!

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I should warn you that we have a new weapon here that is top of the wazza so secret it is unnamed. It is a slingy thingy that lobs cannisters of sticky gooie stuff that bogs tanks sinks gunboats and sticksup any thing that slides or swivels it also has a built in noxious posion gas. So who will sort who. U should :surrender::bow:or:runaway: before we get restless :cheers:

Uhoh, I didn't expect that a simple question would unleash weapons of mass ickiness :O

Then again, being British, I am not renowned for tact when dealing with my Nevadan neighbors...and they are all armed.

The Italians used Carcano actions to power a small spigot mortar, and also had a Carbine with dedicated launcher mounted on the side which used the same bolt as the carbine action. When using the launcher they had to slip the bolt from the carbine action out and into the modified action of the GL.
I suppose in practice the fellow assigned the launcher would pick up a spare bolt when possible.

PS
The Ontos had six recoilless Rifles. I think there may have been a version with four RR and two Mini-guns.
The standard six gun version had spotter .50 guns mounted to four of its guns.

The major use of the Ontos was in firing beehive rounds which could devastate anything ahead of it in the jungle for quite a distance.

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

Uhoh, I didn't expect that a simple question would unleash weapons of mass ickiness :O

Then again, being British, I am not renowned for tact when dealing with my Nevadan neighbors...and they are all armed.

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You can blame that bloke Pete the Pom he reckoned i was unclean and wants to hose me down with a co ax. I know the mud bakes hard but water works ok under a week.:yikes: Looks like rain so had better duck out for this weeks shower donnt want to get coaxed.

Some trench mortars in the Great War used a Lee action to initiate the charge.

Theres a grenade launcher that has been used in Southeast Asia thats made from a No.4 cut down and fitted with a launcher tube to handle NATO type grenades.
I have photos of one of these.
The GL uses a pistol grip and tube stock similar to the M4 Carbine but not adjustable. The ladder sight is moved up to the receiver ring.
The whole thing is very compact.

There were very short cut down No.1 rifles used by Sappers during WW1, these resemble the smoke dischargers and may have been the inspiration for those.
Smoke dischargers without the cup have been used as starter pistols for yatch races. The distances being too great for normal pistol blanks to be heard clearly.

Talking of all things odd.... does anyone have a magazine catch and spring from an M8C .50" spotting rifle?

I'll add them to the KCR shopping list if you want.

Does the spotting rifle have a double-stack magazine?

If so, I think I have one hanging out at home.

Any use to anyone?

NS

Yep, double stack .50 short mag Navyshooter. It;s only the mag catch and spring we reallt need but if you have a spare mag, I'm sure we'd have it if the price was right....................

Peter, this is what's been living on top of my safe.

No reasonable offer refused, but it must include a nice set of photos of the rifle it belongs to.

I've never seen one.

NS