What's the correct color for a sling for the No.5 MK.1 Jungle Carbine? Khaki or green? Or was there even a special sling for them?
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What's the correct color for a sling for the No.5 MK.1 Jungle Carbine? Khaki or green? Or was there even a special sling for them?
The standard No 4 sling in either green or Khaki.
I have a "rubberized" sling in my collection that is the same width and length as the satndard lee enfield web one. It has gone hard now with age. It has a canvas outer sleeve.
I've heard that they were made for tropical climates so possibly they were intended for the No. 5? Anyone have more info on that?
I served in what might be best described as '...tropical climes' Amat and in my time there, we had bog standard sand or dark green slings. Never saw a rubberised sling. They produced plenty of rubber but it'd take more than a coating of rubber to keep the monsoons out of your webbing Yes...., tropical climes. The other words to describe it, off the main roads, was a xxxxxxx pig sty.
It may be similar to one we have on our H.T. Sniper rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amatikulu
With thanks to Advisory Panel members Lance, Son, John Thorne, Wheaty and Jollygreenslugg for their assistance, there's an entry in the Australia - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), complete with a 222 picture photo montage.
Australian No.1 MkIII* H.T. Sniper Rifle (click here)
c/w matching serial number A.O.C. Model 1918 (3x) Scope
(Mfg by Australian Optical Co., Victoria)
c/w Canvas web sling with an inside layer of hard plastic (latex?).
(Mfg in 1941 by B.H.G. Ltd)
There are several follow up sections with additional pics noted in the "Collector's Feedback and Comments" section of the main library entry, including Comment #5 by John Thorne about the WWII ersatz canvas sling.
5. The sling shown mounted on the No.1 MkIII* H.T. Sniper Rifle in this Knowledge Library entry is a WWII version of the ersatz sling, made of folded canvas due to the shortage of webbing. Most but not all of these went to the home guard - the one in the MKL entry here looks particularly nice. B.H.G. Ltd are Barrow, Hepburn, and Gale. This was the WWII version of the name for one of the great British military suppliers - a firm that dates back to early Victorian times and were at times variously called Hepburn Ltd.; Hepburn & Gale; Hepburn, Gale & Ross (aka 'HGR", the most prolific supplier of leather goods, as well as some web, during WWI); and other names as the small military suppliers combined forces to stay alive. ....... (Feedback by "John Thorne")
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...0_Medium_2.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...0_Medium_2.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...0_Medium_2.JPG
Hope this helps .. :thup:
Regards,
Badger
That's it exactly Doug!
Well, I've won a khaki sling on Gunbroker, and just won a green one on eBay, so I guess either one would be OK? Don't have either in my hands yet though.
But pretty much, there wasn't a specific sling made for the No.5? Just a standard Enfield sling?
rondog,Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
As Peter and Strangely stated above, the Rifle, No. 5 Mk 1, took the same, standard web sling, of either color, as the No. 4. There was nev...,(pheew, that was close, almost broke the cardinal rule about discussing Enfields!), I mean, as far as I know, there wasn't any special sling for the No. 5.
To put the old chestnut to rest that the "rubberized' or ersatz WW II canvas, (not web), sling had anything to do with the No. 5, all one has to do is look at the photos Badger kindly posted. These slings are usually dated about three years before the earliest No. 5 rifles were ever produced, not the usual sequence of events for the introduction of an accessory for a new arm.
Cheers,
Terry
I picked up a No5 a couple of years ago with a "blue" web sling. From what I gather, the "blue" slings were air force issue for their No4 rifles.
You're right there Bearhunter. Unbelieveably, we (in Britain) used to equip ore Army with sand/dark green/Kakhi webbing, the RAF with a blue/grey webbing and the Navy with white webbing. Nobody ever seriously questioned it until Sir Derek Rayner was called in to save some money and that's one of his master strokes. Now, after the early 70's, we all wear the same Army webbing. Even the RAF issue Sterling SMG sling was dark blue/grey! He also got rid of costly army staff cars.....especially painted in kakhi. RAF vehicles painted in Blue/grey and Navy vehicles painted in Navy Blue. But I digress as per usual. Now, any vehicle that is unlikely to ever see the battlefield is left in the bog standard commercial colour. Just as an example, it cost the Army an extra £110 (at 1972 prices) to have the Austin 1800 cars painted kakhi. Then, because no one wanted a kakhi car after they were sold off at the auction, the return price was zilch
I've got a blue/grey Sten sling here somewhere ....
The rubberised one was maybe just dropped in the baked beans. The basic colour of webbing is a bit immaterial as it´d have to be blancoed anyway.
If you will all forgive me for wandering a wee bit off topic: who invented that blasted blanco stuff? Colonel Blimp?
Patrick
Could it have been the same company that made Brasso and Kiwi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
FWIW- Back when I was collecting #5MK1s.
I used to use web slings, original Brit. stuff, but I never did find out for what rifle they were made for.
The slings were sage green web, slimmer than the standard Enfield slings, and have brass ends.
They were perfect for the #5MK1.
Slimmer, smaller, and looked good on a #5MK1.
I'm sure someone knowledgable can chime in and tell us what rifles these smaller, thinner, slings were made for originally.
The slings were basically like the web Enfield sling, but without the large rib on the edges. I have seen them only in sage green.
I can post a picture of one of the slings, if needed.
There was only one source of these slings. It was an outfit in Oklahoma that used to have a table at our gun shows in L.V.
They had a lot of old Military items.
This was quite a few years back and I may still have a link to their web site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #5MK1
Like this one? I just won this on eBay.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
NO.
Your sling is the regular Enfield slings and have the ridge on the edges.
The slings I am refering to are the same type web with brass ends, but aren't as thick and they don't have the thick ridges on the sides.
I knew you were gonna say that.....Quote:
Originally Posted by #5MK1
Look like any of these ? some of the L1A1 slings have very thin edges.
British L1A1 Sling
No,the slings I am refering to do not look like anything anyone has posted.
Interesting.
I'll take some pictures this week end and post them.
#5MK1, I think I had a couple of the slings you are referring to. They were flat rather than having the ribs and were green in color but were made of a slightly narrower and thinner nylon or some sort of synthetic material. The brass hardware was almost identical to the standard "Sling, rifle, web, G.S. (Mark I) (second issue)" but slightly narrower to fit the sling. I purchased these slings directly from Century Arms International back in the early '90s. They cost $1 as opposed to the $2 price of the standard British slings. The biggest problem with them was that they would not stay adjusted to a certain length: in other words, if you tried to carry a rifle with the sling over your shoulder, the brass fittings would allow the sling to slide to a longer length and would not stop until they hit the brass hardware. Yes, they looked good but for use they were totally crap.
Yes, the description is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by gew8805
I ony used those slings for show.
When I take my #5MK1 coyote hunting, I install a wide leather modern type sling, padded for comfort and easy to use.
However, the sliding problem problem and not staying adjusted on the surplus web slings was easily corrected by tweaking the brass prongs on the end of the sling.
Even with that fix, I would not use any military sling for personal use. They just aren't comfortable.
Military slings are OK for show, but they are not as user friendly as a GOOD commercial sling.
I think most of the guys using #5MK1s for truck guns out west here on ranches, use a commercial sling for ease and comfort.
But, the green web slintgs mentioned seemed to look the best on #5MK1s. I don't think they were made for the rifle, and we never found out what rifle they were for.
Would these be the Mystery Slings?
Two minor varieties with identical brass ends, one with unribbed web edge, one with a slight rib.
One sling seems to be marked "ABL" over "??" over "1954" and another "GIE" over "AL" over "1954"---these are the two with the slight ribbing. The thinnest type I have never found marked. I think the end tabs tie these two types to the same source, by the way.
So, Belgian?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...75796126-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...75796125-1.jpg
-----krinko
ABL is definately Belgian and they still exist to this day, still bidding for UK MoD webbing contracts. Nylon is a bit of a no-no currently as it burns ans sticks
Peter, do you have any idea of the origin of the narrower nylon slings? Century had many of them for sale but since they were so dissimilar to the correct English sling and wouldn't hold adjustment I only bought the two, site unseen. I had no use for more since the General Service Sling was easily available at the time. I remember that the polyester and nylon uniforms and webbing fell out of favor VERY quickly after fire related experiences during the war in the Falklands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
#5MK1, as a side note, I personally think that the Mills slings is the most comfortable and easily adjusted military sling ever made. I've carried a rifle for hours with them and have never felt any discomfort. Your mileage will, of course, vary. I did try adjusting the prongs and it worked to a point but also made the sling somewhat more difficult to adjust while still not keeping it where I wanted it to stay.
I can't pass any comments on the thinner sling but they definately weren't ours.., I mean British issue. I agree whole heartedly about the standard sling. It was the most versatile bit of kit ever invented. It probably came second only to the toggle rope. During military training lessons, exercises and on active service everyone carried a spare sling wrapped around his waist or tucked into his webbing somewhere. The SMG sling was another firm favourite too. There were some adverse comments coming in about the dark green nylon type material sling, isued from 1981 onwards. The predominantly nylon make up (it wasn't actually nylon as I understand it.....) caused it to slip in the buckle and that's the reason why the Bren was never issued with a long nylon type sling. There you go..............
The ABL slings like Peter has already mentioned are Belgium. They would have been used with the early FAL rifles, hence the 1954 date on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by krinko
I think your going to be disappointed... or maybe elated with your sling........ I'm guessing when you get it you will have trouble trying to slide it through the sling swivels.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
I believe you have an Indian 1A1/2A rifle sling these are wider (1/8 of an inch wider) then a normal Lee Enfield type sling.
"The ABL slings like Peter has already mentioned are Belgium"
And here I thought ABL was "Armee Belge/Belgische Leger", which I believe means "dry clean only".
Learn something new every day.
-----krinko
Thanks! That's why I bought two, have a khaki one coming from another source. It probably won't work either.Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector