Look what the mailman brought me today

Leftent decided to thin out his herd, so I bought (back, it was mine once before) a piece I needed to pair off a collection.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/FNC1A1-1.jpg
It is a 1968 C1A1 in the 8L series. It was an ex-OPP rifle, and by reading the remains of the sticky glue used on the old label on the butt, it served in Parry Sound.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/C1A1C2-1.jpg
It is, unfortunately a dewat, but the memory of the bruised cheek comes back as soon as you hold it to your face.
Here it is next to my (dewat) C2A1.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../10/C1C2-1.jpg
Here is a close up of the markings on the left side of the receivers. As you can also see, both carry the scars of internal welds.

These rifle types both have special memories for me. They are the family of rifle that I trained on back in the late 70s as a young man of 16 years. The C2A1 was the first rifle I carried on a Shilo ex.
The C1 sure feels like a solid rifle compared to the C7s.

They remind me of my days in the service. I used to bash on C1s, C2s and SMGs, etc. These days I have to go to the museum to look at any.

Sweet! Too bad we can;t all own one :)

What was welded inside and why? Dewat?

Beautiful Stencollector, nice dewat job!

OS

I saw that C1 for sale on the CGNTZ EE...I thought about it but wasn't able to pony up $1200 for it just now...nice score though.

I believe the welds represent conversion from full auto to "converted automatic" status.

Just plain sweet looking!SDH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claven2

I believe the welds represent conversion from full auto to "converted automatic" status.

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Unfortunately, no. The welds represent the conversion from full auto to no status. The C2A1 was one of very few that were sold to qualified DCRA shooters, and upon the owners death, the estate put it up for sale. After a month on consignment sale at a dealers, then a while on the exch forum. I bought it. I had it transferred to a local dealer, then had it deactivated.
I hated to do it, but I really didn't see another option. Since guns like these are relegated to be safequeens now, and at least this way,these can be openly displayed.

The C1A1 was one of the OPP ones that went through Collector's source years ago. I actually owned it once before, and sold it.
I got it for a bit less than the price Cantom quoted.

The two are sitting side by each in my study as we speak. Both are very minty, albeit nuetered.

This is me crying a little inside. Neutered LB C1's... such a shame.

I don't feel gulty on the C1, as it was done before I owned it. It's the C2A1 that I'll burn in hell for.
Some say it was the dull drill bit, but others would say you could hear her screaming as I drilled into her still warm chamber to press fit the pin.
Russ couldn't stand to watch and had to head outside, where he comforted his anxious M1919 with the words "I'll never let the mean man do that to you honey".

Of course, my crime was nothing compared to the truckloads that went to the smelters over the last year in Montreal and Edmonton. The entire CF warstock inventory of C1s, C2s, and SMG c1s went in to the Liberal red swimming pools. The 106 recoiless rifles went for a last dip as well.

As an aside, I have considered replacing the lower receiver (actually called a trigger housing) with a brand new one, as they are readily available, but I would lose the serial number and the government inspection stamp (the stylised arow) if I did.

I'll never "get" the idea of meltig down viable and non-obsolete war reserve material. I mean, it's already paid for. What's the harm in lathering them in cosmolene and putting them in storage.

If another WW2-type scenario happened next year they'd be licking the nutsack of the "I'm STUPID" tree ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claven2

I'll never "get" the idea of melting down viable and non-obsolete war reserve material. I mean, it's already paid for. What's the harm in lathering them in cosmolene and putting them in storage.

If another WW2-type scenario happened next year they'd be licking the nutsack of the "I'm STUPID" tree ;)

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In all honesty, I wouldn't call the FN, or SMG viable. As much fun as they were to shoot, the C2 was too light for what it was pumping out, and was hard to keep on target. And a magazine fed SAW leaves a lot to be desired, especially when compared to something modern like the C9.
Using FNs in todays world, is like driving that big old 70s pontiac parisienne amongst todays Hondas and minivans.
I still shoot a sterling all the time, and enjoy it, but it, too, really is a nostalgic item. There were over 24000 of the SMGs still in stock. At some point you have to rationalise how you use your wharehouse space.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stencollector

I don't feel gulty on the C1, as it was done before I owned it. It's the C2A1 that I'll burn in hell for.
Some say it was the dull drill bit, but others would say you could hear her screaming as I drilled into her still warm chamber to press fit the pin.
Russ couldn't stand to watch and had to head outside, where he comforted his anxious M1919 with the words "I'll never let the mean man do that to you honey".

Of course, my crime was nothing compared to the truckloads that went to the smelters over the last year in Montreal and Edmonton. The entire CF warstock inventory of C1s, C2s, and SMG c1s went in to the Liberal red swimming pools. The 106 recoiless rifles went for a last dip as well.

As an aside, I have considered replacing the lower receiver (actually called a trigger housing) with a brand new one, as they are readily available, but I would lose the serial number and the government inspection stamp (the stylised arow) if I did.

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Depending on who you talk to, some say they still have new C1's and C2's in the crates, just like the brand new Inglis High Power pistols that they continue to issue to the troops in Afghanistan as old ones wear out...there was a story on Milsurp yesterday about 20 new Inglises issued...

Any chance they just melted down the well used beaters and still kept some new ones back? Or am I dreaming?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stencollector

In all honesty, I wouldn't call the FN, or SMG viable. As much fun as they were to shoot, the C2 was too light for what it was pumping out, and was hard to keep on target. And a magazine fed SAW leaves a lot to be desired, especially when compared to something modern like the C9.
Using FNs in todays world, is like driving that big old 70s pontiac parisienne amongst todays Hondas and minivans.
I still shoot a sterling all the time, and enjoy it, but it, too, really is a nostalgic item. There were over 24000 of the SMGs still in stock. At some point you have to rationalise how you use your wharehouse space.

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Be that as it may, one thing the CF has no shortage of is warehouse space - especially since our CF today is 1/2 the size it was 20 years ago, yet most of the supply warehouses remain intact.

True, the C2 is an obsolete concept, but the C1 rifle is still a viable weapon. Look at our American friends in Iraq. They are busting their asses trying to refurb and deploy as many M14's as possible. Why? Well, the M16 is a great platform but it's not enough by itself to get the job done. A squad needs the capability to deploy some heavy hitters and the FN-FAL would fill that role admirably. If we had to conscript and field 250,000 new infantrymen in time of war, believe me, those arms would have been considered useful. And I don't mean an afghan war here... I mean a truly large scale conflict involving our allies and a determined, organized opponent like North Korea, Iran, Syria or a hostile China.

Think about it ;) Could Diemaco pump new C7's out fast enough and at a fair enough price? I doubt it.

I don't want to try and start a what if thread, as this debate about the retention of the FN has been hashed over at CGN, and by people still in the loop.
The C1 is not an overly accurate weapon, and could not be made to do so. Also, since no-one makes the parts any longer, you would be fielding a gun that has little or no support short of cannibalisation. I don't mean to insult the soldiors who trained on the FN family of rifles, but every armed force in the world, right down to the rag tag militias in the jungles, are told that their weapons are the finest ever made, and their forces are the best trained. While that sense of pride is important for the morale of a fighting force, not everyone is in 1st place. And the FN does not have a major place in todays battlefield, given today's doctrines.
The Cf is run like a business these days, and the 25 year stock of parts like we used to carry in the 50s is over. C7s can be had for under 2K each; add another K for the scope. If we wanted a 1/4 million of these in war reserve, we could have them, all for less than the Liberal's adscam budget. But the anticipated need is not there.
And do you really think you could conscript a quarter million of todays civilians into a war? By the time they finished with the harrasment complaints, the human rights complaints, the discrimination complaints, any war would be long over.

From a collector's standpoint, as each truckload of rifles got smeltered, mine became more rare.

Oh, I think outside of Quebec you'd have no problem conscripting 250,000 men if a legitimate need arose ala WW2 Nazi type of situation. In Quebec, however, even the thought of conscription would trigger another referendum with an 80%+ vote to leave Canada - of that I'm certain.

Some cultures just don't believe a cause exists that is worth dying for. I'm French myself, so before anyone starts in on the "maudite Anglais" and their opinions... well... you get the idea.

I attended a course in the summer of 1958 in 1958. We were each issued FNC1s brand new from Long Branch factory thick with cosmoline. The first day was spent getting the stuff OFF !
They were all 0L????? serial numbers.
We carried them everywhere for 16 weeks, except I was lucky enough (?) to get a Bren for a 2 week field ex in Meaford.
For a few years in the 70s in Ottawa I belonged to the DCRA club at Connaught Ranges and was ISSUED an accurized FNC1 to keep EACH summer for my convenience to shoot the (free) issued ammo.
With the C98 firearms regs, the FNC1 became PROHIBITED and were only allowed to be touched by members of the military (or those individuals who were grandfathered) lucky for me I already had my own !
Army cadet units had issue FNC1s with .22 cal inserts which were withdrawn and replaced by SMLE #7s in .22 cal and later replaced by AIR RIFLES !

btw the RCMP had FNC1s in their armouries and they were hit by the early regs which have prevented their recruit police cadets from touching them for training util the gov't amended the regs to allow "cadets" as well as military to use them.

8L series are the usual rifles found in civilian hands here in Canada. I would love to find a 0L series FN, but I suspect I will be waiting a long time yet. It must have been a real charge to be degreasing a (then) modern semi auto rifle in Borden while many would be still operating with Lee Enfields.

Legend has it that Jimmy Carter started the run on our war reserves. Destroying M1's, carbines. 03's, 03A3's, BAR's, Thompsons by the thousands. It is said that 55 gallon drums were filled with 1911's still in the boy and filled with concrete to be dumped in the ocean. Clinton continued the destruction of war reserves throwing them into the grinder. When congress stopped it because of the uproar of the people he backdoored his efforts and (GAVE) Poland some 3/4 million M-14's. Now our boys are screaming to more.

To think when I shot DCRA you could have a C1 for military matches as long as you were part of the military. I along with others joined the Sask. Dragoons and know keeping the C1 for a indefinite period of time (if not forever) was not a impossibility. The paper trail on who had one was pretty weak and like my kit they never chased you to return anything. Never entered a military match but always practiced alot with the C1 pretending I was going to one day.

I think the only way they really knew who had a C1 was by who requested 7.62 ammunition as we still shot .303 in our No 4's.

Watched a show on TV the other day and the presenters mentioned how IF the US had adopted the FN it would still be in use today. The M16 would be a fun gun to own however when some bat s*&t crazy adversary hopped-up on drugs and stupidity is after you the 7.62 is a much better "stopper" than a .223.

Loved shooting the C1 and wish we had the opportunity to own one today, could sure spout-off about that but we just can't get into politics.