1944 Long Branch on the way

Well, it is my birthday tomorrow (getting used to all the jokes about needing a walker and a guide dog for the decrepit) and I have a 1944 Long Branch on the way, should be here by Friday. I got it on Gunbroker, so I really will not have a full idea of what I have let myself in for until I rip open the box and head to the range - if it is as good as it looks (I really, REALLY bugged the seller for information) then I will be very happy, but if it is a turkey then I will just put it down to experience. These are the photos I have so far, will send more when it turns up, and I have promised the prior owner a range report.

Happy Birthday old fella ... :lol:

I'm 62, so I get to say that kind of stuff now ... ;)

Nice birthday present .... :super:

From those pics, she looks just fine to me ....

Regards,
Badger

Congrats! Looks like a nice one! I just learned something...I thought "longbranch" was a nickname of some kind, or the name of a saloon on an old TV show. I certainly didn't know the rifles were actually stamped with that on them!

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Originally Posted by rondog

I just learned something...I thought "longbranch" was a nickname of some kind, or the name of a saloon on an old TV show. I certainly didn't know the rifles were actually stamped with that on them!

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Long Branch is a suburb of old Toronto, Canada, where the Long Branch production facilities were located.

Thanks to mrclark, here's a really nice historical picture tour of the facility and its employees … :thup:

mrclark's Long Branch Factory Picture Gallery (click here)

Regards,
Badger

My goal is a 1941 Long Branch and/or Savage (just gotta love the bolt release catch versus the bolt release slot that is prone to wear and damage). I know that the bolt release slot was introduced in 1942 for Savage and Long Branch No.4 Mk.1*s (and that is why they have the *), but was there a period in 1942 when the bolt release catch was still being installed (ok, the simple version of the question is this - do 1942 No.4 Mk.1s from Savage or Long Branch exist?)

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

My goal is a 1941 Long Branch and/or Savage (just gotta love the bolt release catch versus the bolt release slot that is prone to wear and damage). I know that the bolt release slot was introduced in 1942 for Savage and Long Branch No.4 Mk.1*s (and that is why they have the *), but was there a period in 1942 when the bolt release catch was still being installed (ok, the simple version of the question is this - do 1942 No.4 Mk.1s from Savage or Long Branch exist?)

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There's examples complete with photo pictorials of both 1941 and 1942 Long Branch rifles in the Knowledge Libraries.

With thanks to member RNWMP, check out the entry in the Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)

1942/43/44 RCMP No.4 Mk1* Long Branch Rifles (click here) .....

..… also ….

With thanks to Advisory Panel member Lance, check out the entry in the Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)

1941 No.4 Mk1 Long Branch Rifle (click here) .....

Lance mentions under Collector's Comments and Feedback #5 ...

5. To show another variation that occurred during the manufacture of this rifle, here's a pic of my No.4 Mk1 Long Branch that was thrown into production in the first quarter of '42. Note both Mk I and Mk I* bolt release mechanisms. .......... (Feedback by "Lance")

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...s/P1010021.JPG
Pic courtesy of "Lance"
(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Regards,
Badger

Oh, boy - both types of bolt release mechanism? That is my new Holy Grail, although my chances of finding one are non-existent, and I probably couldn't afford it if one did turn up (not allowed to sell my children, apparently - my wife would get annoyed).

Badger, and Lance-IIRC your Long Branch with both types of bolt releases is a 1941, is it not? I've been looking for proof of a 1942 dated Mk1, and have yet to find one.
Spinecracker, 1941's are not as rare as you might think. They pop up fairly often on the auction sites. The last one set a high water mark (that I've seen). The one you want is a LB No. 4 Mk1/2. Now, THAT'S a rare bird!

Spinecracker, Looks to be a Canadian Arsenals (Long Branch succesor)rearsenal. These are splendid rifles and you can look at the barrel date to see when it was performed, if the barrel were changed that is.

Brad

Bradtx, it looks like an all WW II rifle. It has the C /l\ ownership marks and the early WW II style Mk 3 rear sight. Did not spot anything to suggest a post WW II rebuild. Did I miss something?

The fact that it dates to WW2 and doesn't look like anyone has severely messed with it is good enough for me. I don't have tons of money to throw around (or rich old relatives with huge Lee Enfield collections to give away when they pop off), so I have to stick to the cheaper end of the market and be very careful with my purchases.

Your '41 Savage or LB (rather scarcer) might be lurking at the local pawn or seedy gunshop that NEVER has anything worth looking at. You just gotta be prepared to sift out the 99.99% of other stuff. Sometimes it makes for long dry spells, but the hunt's the thing!

Already got my route for the quarterly hunt through the local, and not so local, pawn shops and seedy gun shops laid out. Looked in 1 a very short time ago that was selling a Savage with a VERY chewed up bolt release slot and in a poor condition - for $300. I had great difficulty keeping a straight face. The 1 gun shop that has plenty of Lee Enfields in Reno refuses to sell them as the are part of a collection that used to belong to a now deceased collector, stating that they only put any of the rifles up for sale if something nicer comes in - almost broke my heart seeing 12 to 14 Lee Enfields on display just out of reach. Dog in a manger comes to mind lol.

jona, The A within a C is a manufacturer mark, rather than an ownership mark.

Brad

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Originally Posted by bradtx

jona, The A within a C is a manufacturer mark, rather than an ownership mark.

Brad

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That bit I do know, but all the markings I see in the pictures are a broad arrow inside a C, no "A"s.

Sorry, Jona. I meant to say broad arrow within a C. I really shouldn't triple task myself!

Brad

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Originally Posted by jona

Bradtx, it looks like an all WW II rifle. It has the C /l\ ownership marks and the early WW II style Mk 3 rear sight. Did not spot anything to suggest a post WW II rebuild. Did I miss something?

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One sure sign of a post war refurb is the force matched bolt serial number. Also hard to tell fore sure from the photos but it looks to also be parked as would be expected in a refurb as apposed to the correct blued. No matter it's a very nice rifle. I'm a bit of a Long Branch snob though.

On the computer I'm using the receiver socket looks blued. Not sure about the numbers on the bolt handle, but it looks like the last one was applied over an electropenciled proof mark, MAYBE(?). Need more pics to be sure. The receiver side surely has that bead blasted "parked" look, Mk1 eyeball will help determine the actual finish.

BTW If the rear of the bolt handle is actually "white" then its for sure a renumber.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

On the computer I'm using the receiver socket looks blued. Not sure about the numbers on the bolt handle, but it looks like the last one was applied over an electropenciled proof mark, MAYBE(?). Need more pics to be sure. The receiver side surely has that bead blasted "parked" look, Mk1 eyeball will help determine the actual finish.

BTW If the rear of the bolt handle is actually "white" then its for sure a renumber.

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In this case I was referring to the fact that the fonts do not match between the bolt and receiver numbers. Also the LB stamp at the root of the bolt handle has almost been removed when the previous serial number was removed. I’m going on personal observation here but the fully correct examples I’ve seen have always had the fonts on the receiver and bolt match. Also on late war examples the area at the back of the bolt handle where the serial number is stamped is also quite smooth. I have one rifle with the same font 6/9 and it is a known post war Canadian referb. If I’m in error on this one I apologize and you can feel free to correct me at will.
On my screen the photo of the receiver side wall has that slight greenish tint to it denoting the parked finish.
No matter what I like this rifle. Most of my LB’s are referbed. It’s getting harder to find all correct examples.

Heck, I was beginning to think I had got a lemon :P

If nothing else, I have (or will have) a nice example of a 1944 Long Branch, which has not been bubba'd, but has gone through reasonable, minimal changes.

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

Heck, I was beginning to think I had got a lemon :P

If nothing else, I have (or will have) a nice example of a 1944 Long Branch, which has not been bubba'd, but has gone through reasonable, minimal changes.

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A Lemon? Not even close. From the looks of the sellers photos you are on the receiving end of a very nice rifle. Like so many British No4 rifles it is very hard to find a Long Branch today that hasn’t had at least some level of FTR work done to it. It’s a full wood LB No4 and from the sounds of it you got it for a good price so how bad can it be?

Just had a look at the Long Branch Factory gallery mentioned previously on this thread, and liked seeing the human side of the manufacturing process. I was considering posting one of the pics (either the lady holding the L.E. with the bayonet attached or the lady holding the sten gun) on one of those silly "chicks with guns" websites, just to annoy them, but I didn't want to waste my time (they NEVER have decent images of L.E.s, and the boobs get in the way of the other firearms - why would anyone want to look at that??? :P )

I saw a Long Branch No.4 in a gun shop yesterday, but it had been heavily sporterized. Even polished and blued. Had a big price tag on it.

Mind if I ask how much the price tag was for? I bought mine for $260 (not including all the costs of shipping, Brady check, etc - boy, there are always plenty of people who want their fistful of money from an honest buyer :P ), which appears to be a very reasonable price, based on my own research.

I have a feeling you're going to be quite satisfied, spinecracker.

Brad

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

Mind if I ask how much the price tag was for? I bought mine for $260 (not including all the costs of shipping, Brady check, etc - boy, there are always plenty of people who want their fistful of money from an honest buyer :P ), which appears to be a very reasonable price, based on my own research.

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I'd have to go back and double-check, but I'm thinking it was $450. FAR more than it was worth, even I could see that.

It is so sad when you see stores and auctions trying to rip people off, like the $1000 Savage 1942 (I think) I spotted on GB yesterday and the bashed up No.1 Mk.III* with the mismatched bolt, rust pitting and cracked handguards that my local Cabelas was trying to flog for $400, not to mention the Savage I spotted in a local sporting store with a bolt release slot that looked like someone had taken a cold chisel to for $300 (definitely unsafe in my humble opinion). I am considering doing a survey of prices for L.E. No.4s from different sources and seeing what the differences are between different buying options (store/gun show/auction/etc), but only when I have time.

On a different note, and as I just saw this - OBAMA GOT THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE????? Now they are giving it to people who haven't actually done anything yet, and have already been shown to be weak leaders? Or are they just giving it away free? Where's mine? I am %^^$ED off.

"On a different note, and as I just saw this - OBAMA GOT THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE????? Now they are giving it to people who haven't actually done anything yet, and have already been shown to be weak leaders? Or are they just giving it away free? Where's mine? I am %^^$ED off." --spinecracker

Hadn't heard about that! HMMM, Jimmy Carter, must've been more of an over achiever than I gave him credit for...

Rifle hasn't shown, yet?

Brad

Today, tomorrow or Monday - well, so I was told.....being messed around a little by the FFL I am using, so we will have to see. Not nervous, at all......much....maybe a little lol

It turned up today very late - managed to get my Brady check sneaked in at the last moment (literally) at the gun store I used as the FFL for shipping purposes. Now the rifle is laying 3 feet from me and I will be giving it a very good going over tonight and tommorow. I have yet to find any part that is not Canadian marked, but I am sure to have questions.

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Originally Posted by bradtx

Spinecracker, Looks to be a Canadian Arsenals (Long Branch succesor)rearsenal. These are splendid rifles and you can look at the barrel date to see when it was performed, if the barrel were changed that is.

Brad

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Well, it did turn up on Friday, but I got knocked for six by H1N1 flu (I was supposed to go to hospital, but I'm too sick for that lol), and I only now have enough strength to even type. The rifle does appear to be a Canadian Arsenals rearsenal, and all the parts that I have been able to view have the LB marking. I will look at the barrel date when I have enough strength to use a screwdriver :madsmile: The butt plate is Mazak alloy (well, it is grey, so I assume it is Mazak) but it has been parkerized - would this be normal on a Canadian Arsenals rearsenal? I also noted that the bolt action is a little stiff on closing, so should I consider getting the rifle headspace checked?

spinecracker, Get well soon! I think only the steel was parkerized. I wouldn't worry too much about headspace at this point. I don't remember which rifle, but one had what looked like hardened cosmo (I don't really know what it was) inside the bolt body that I cleaned out with brake clean, reoiled and became noticeably better on closing.

Brad

Well, I did feel enough improved to give the thing a really good cleaning (not much to do, really - just wipe the chamber out and de-gunk the magazine - it was yucky), and now it chambers perfectly. The barrel is original, being dated 1944 and, although I am no expert on these matters, it looks pristine (heck, it even glints, and that isn't a word I use lightly lol). If the rest of the rifle is in such good condition, I have to wonder why the bolt had obviously been replaced at a later date - someone just misplaced the thing?