Restoring the M1 Carbine

Hello fellow collectors I wanted to pass along some information you might find helpfull if you are planning on restoring your M1 Carbine. I have a friend who asked me to help him restore a carbine he purchased at a show a few months back. It was a 5 million Winchester import with poor finish and he wanted to put all the correct parts and have it refinished back to spec. After many months of looking for parts to complete it, I sent it to Pataskala Shooter Supply and they put a really nice ZINC finish on all the parts that looks really good. I am a picky person and was extremely pleased with their work. If you are considering a restoration project I would highly recommend their service. They can be reached at this email address listed below. Thanks Paul

ps tell them I sent you

pataskalashootersupply@yahoo.com

Do you have any pictures of it?

No sorry but I found this link on GB of their work. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=141890310

They have some nice looking receivers up for auction.......but don't give the serial # range.

Their park work looks nice.
I'd say very fair price for that kind of detail.

Thanks for the heads up Paul.

Cheers
Charlie-painter777

It stinks. Everything's the same color. Every little part should be blued - every pin, the hammer, the trigger, the bolt, the extractor, the adjustable rear sight, the barrel band, etc. They said they did this in the description but the pictures don't show it. What they show looks like an arsenal re-finish where they Parkerized everything. An original, new carbine looks very different than a re-finish. Plus, on an original with parts by many sub-contractors, finishes will have different colors, shades and textures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

Every little part should be blued - every pin, the hammer, the trigger, the bolt, the extractor, the adjustable rear sight, the barrel band, etc. They said they did this in the description but the pictures don't show it. What they show looks like an arsenal re-finish where they Parkerized everything. An original, new carbine looks very different than a re-finish. Plus, on an original with parts by many sub-contractors, finishes will have different colors, shades and textures.

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Sounds like this came from the "humper's" bible....:move eek:
No offense Inland....just an observation.

No offense here either but we talk of cold blueing bolts and reparking to the point that we want them to look original but then we just go nuts when someone restamps a stock. Some of us just draw the line at a different place.

Here's a couple of pictures of a SG bolt that came on a recent buy.
The bolt was parked, but....
If you look closely you'll see someone tried to either cold blue the flat top or maybe used a Sharpie Marker to cover up the wear.
I'm attempting to remove just his blue paint job.
There's nothing dis-honest about trying to straighten out what Bubba did.

Cheers
Charlie

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05228-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05224-1.jpg

as for my tastes, I will never repark or blue any of my guns, no matter what I just want th em original always.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

It stinks. Everything's the same color. Every little part should be blued - every pin, the hammer, the trigger, the bolt, the extractor, the adjustable rear sight, the barrel band, etc. They said they did this in the description but the pictures don't show it. What they show looks like an arsenal re-finish where they Parkerized everything. An original, new carbine looks very different than a re-finish. Plus, on an original with parts by many sub-contractors, finishes will have different colors, shades and textures.

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Inland44,
I've always loved the way you 'Don't Stand Behind The Bush To Tell It' !!
Could it be possible that the owner of the carbine.....that the Seller/Service provider on GB used as an example.....wanted all the parts parked?

I didn't notice after posting about it that the parts we'd expect to see the blued/Dulite finish weren't. Until reading your reply.
That's my fault, for not looking closer.
But I do think the re-park has a nice look to it...JMO.
Also knowing how particular PBI is........I'd be comfortable taking his word on their workmanship.

Couldn't agree more that with all the different suppliers that the park finish never matches correctly on every part.

To Paul- PBI,
Tell us more about the carbine restored for your friend.
Were the smaller parts blued?
Like in their description?


Thanks,
Charlie

Ok, I might as well stir the pot on this one too....

There are 4 different types of Carbine buyers/seller out there... The serious collector, the serious shooter and the people who haven't committed to either side. The 4th group? well...


The serious collector is focused mostly on the make-up of the carbine and its parts from a rarity point of view. They know how it was built and the parts that make it valueable per the market's demand. I tend to call them purest because they (rightly) feel that after market parts ruin a carbine and that modern adaptions (like red dot scopes) are sacrilege. They can tell you dates of manufacture, cartouche and inspector stamp meanings and other specifics that "humpers" try to imitate. They are a good bunch of guys, but they love history - not fakers.

Those that love to shoot the carbine are worried about having the tightest recoil plate they can find. They will lay aside a WWII walnut highwood I-stock with a type I band and choose a good, thick M2 potbelly with a tight type III band because it groups better.... Sure, they could swap for that type II slide that matches the manufacturer and the year of the receiver, but the type V that they have adds accuracy plus the park on it means it won't rust. They know how to make these old weapons come back alive and do what they were built to do - shoot!

Those who haven't committed? Well, they know that their carbine has got a good amount of wear on it, but would a re-park job keep it from rusting? They are wanting to know if their Inland 3/44 barrel could have possibly be original to their 1.5 mil QHMC receiver. And why is this wood on the stock so dark and dented? They expect the carbine to shoot clover leaf holes at 100 yards. And the questions go on - they just don't know if they want the original factory issue Inland or the recently rebuilt from Fulton.

Each group has its own values and the members of each group do great AS LONG AS THEY STAY WITHIN THEIR OWN GROUP...

Basically, collectors don't like what shooters do and shooters dont care for collector's view points....

Its that simple - so lets just break it down to simple terms... the arguement should be something along the line of "Taste Great!" versus "Less Filling!"

Oh, the 4th group.... they are the ones who try and cheat the other 3 groups... the humpers and liars and cheaters who mis-state weapons value and parts. They own fake cartouche stamps and seem ot have an endless supply of IP and Winchester parts that no one else can manage to locate...

So why do the 1st three groups argue between themselves when they should really be ganging up on the 4th group/????


Ok, said my peace - fire away, I got my blast shield up....

Hahaha! Great post! I guess I am group two. I love to shoot them, have always had one since the mid-80s, carried it as an LE duty weapon, and use it as a house gun. In the spring after shoulder surgery I am starting shooting the carbine in matches. I laugh because I just bought a SA birch pot belly stock and have no plans of un-upgrading my great Underwood. The WW2 cartouched stock is going in the gun safe.

BUT.... I have half of an Inland rack grade $$$$ already stashed away to get one to retro (with repro).

O.K. Guys. I now pose these questions. ---- (I'm group I above, by the way).
?- What is "original"??
?- At what point would you change parts to make a carbine "original"?
?- Is "original" as manufactured, or is "original" a carbine with "original" (not fake) parts that have been replaced to make "original"? A restoration, if you please.
?- How would you describe rifles in all of the above mentioned categories?

I'm not being critical, just trying to get the "lay of the land".

Help me out on this one ---

jim

I love the look of an original carbine- one that is either original or has been put back original. I admire a person who searches for all the right parts and is willing to pay what it takes these days. I also love the carbines that were arsenaled and updated. These weapons have the history as being there and used and rebuilt to be used again. Honor the men who used them. One question I have is that people get upset when parts are repro'ed. If some one came up with an original cartouch stamp- you know they are out there somewhere- would it be any different to use it as to replace a type 3 sight with a flip?

I think the difference is deception and theft. If I get a rack grade Inland, and put a repro Type I band and repro flip sight on it, to use for WWII re-enacting, I am not trying to fool or cheat anyone.

With the stamps, people are faking and fleecing people selling by stuff that is not original for prices that are~ They are in effect stealing peoples money.

Some people only want an original "as issued" WW2 weapon. Very rare and extremely expensive.

Some people want to restore a carbine to "as issued": with the correct parts. It will never be "as issued" as has been pointed out, but still desirable. It is a correct exemplar. For the most part, I think the "thrill of the chase" is part of the fun. It would be for me. They are not trying to fool anyone, though.

Some people want to just restore the general appearance of a WW2 weapon, maybe for re-enacting or just for personal preference. This is a superficial makeover done inexpensively with repro parts.

The fakers are stealing money from the first two groups, and the dreaded stamps are their tools. I am not in the first two groups, and do not pretend to be. A thief who steals from someone else, however, is still a thief. Back when I had money, I considered "restoring" a carbine. The proliferation of fakes and my own lack of expertise made me decide against it.

To the august and knowledgeable collectors on this board, I salute you. It must kill you to see the humpers out there.

Jim, I haven't had my coffee yet, but I will go ahead and take a stroll through the minefield of "original"....

Let's do this mathematically... let's see the factors... 10 different primary manufacturers.... 20 or more (total guess) of sub-contractors providing multiple parts to multiple primer contractors.... hmmm, let's multiple that by the number of updates (and drawing changes) ordered just in the 3 1/2 production years (subtract the post WWII updates)... add the cherry stocks and divide by the birch... hmmm, carry the M2 number forward.... oh, that’s simple... the answer is there were 6,000,000 "original" originals !!!!

See, that’s why Carbine addicts are so addicted. Each of the 6 million carbines were unique in their own way – and the way they were “mixmastered” is unique. The kicker is that because there are no long-lasting manufacturer records, no accessible unit issue records and no armory rebuild records, each one is a mystery of what “original” form it started out in.

Are there any originals? Only in the museums and in the unfired presentation models. There are no “originals” on Ebay, gunshows, CMP or even Uncle Billy’s garage-sale “bring backs”. Every one of the 6 million were issued, fired, broken into a hundred pieces during unit weapon cleanings and re-builds. Now, we all understand the term “correct”… but back to the how that individual receiver was made…. And is it really fair to have a receiver which may have seen duty in the European theater wearing a bolt which could have been used in the Pacific theater – oh, and lets don’t forget Korea and Vietnam! So its kinda like buying clothes from three different stores – your shirt is from Sears, your shoes are from Penny’s and your pants are from Macy’s. You’re dressed and it matches, but its not “original” and tailor-made.


Nope, none of my carbines are originals, they are not even “all correct”. They never could be. But they are full of mystery and they are full of fun.

I have been to over 25 different countries in my military career. I have been a few places that most Americans and even fewer military people ever get to go. I know some military people who manage to spend an entire career never leaving the US (it is possible). That’s kind of like the Carbines. Has mine seen the world, fought in famous battles, been the salvation that got a young man home to build a life and family? Or did mine get used at a training range or get locked away in reserve, never to have a shot fired from it in anger? I will never know… but I do know that “original” only happened once for each of them between 1942 and 1945.

But isn’t that what makes all this carbine addiction fun?????

I think the difference is deception and theft. If I get a rack grade Inland, and put a repro Type I band and repro flip sight on it, to use for WWII re-enacting, I am not trying to fool or cheat anyone.

With the stamps, people are faking and fleecing people selling by stuff that is not original for prices that are~ They are in effect stealing peoples money.

Some people only want an original "as issued" WW2 weapon. Very rare and extremely expensive.

Not exactly my point. If someone were to take a cmp carbine and buy original parts and correct its "issued" state to one that appears original as built and someone had a original stamp would it be wrong to use it? None of the parts would be "original to that carbine or the stamp but it would appear to be. Personally I don't have a problem with late features and up dates. To me that is as issued in the particular carbines history.

Tired and Retired, I like your style!!:dancingbanana:
To partially answer some of the questions I posed.... From my own personal standpoint. And that, IHMO is what we all will have to decide.
Original
EXACTLY as from the manufacturer.. NO changes. And as Tired and Retired explains, that covers a lot of ground. With all the parts swapping that the makers did, before us "collectors" ever got wind of a carbine. No one could conclusively say that one as opposed to another is original. Now we can testify as to the provenance, like vet bring-backs. That is about as close as we can get.... Other than, as previously mentioned, presentation or other types of special awards. 6 million originals. Damn!!
Restoration Deciding when to "mess with" a carbine that is close to "original". Again, I believe a personal decision. For me, if only a couple of parts are "wrong", I'd go ahead. But I would present it as a "Restoration", and explain that to anyone should the rifle leave my collection. I do keep record of those. Three or four years ago, maybe more, I got three carbines from the CMP that were in their "original" white bags. Of course, they were not "original" as manufactured, cause they had been thru an arsenal rebuild. But they were mostly correct. I changed out the parts (no fakes) to make them "correct".
I now have some of the latest CMP rifles of different genre's. I'm inclined to leave them as is. Most of them are true mix-masters. Some receivers have redeeming factors such as line-outs, or special marks. That is primarily why I got them... Someone in the future may want to try to "restore" them, but not likely me.
I have (or had) only two carbines that I would bet were originals. Both came with provenance proof only. That, and looking at a gun, you can tell right away if it's been in a dark closet for a looooonnng time. I cannot and will not conclusively say they are original, and I have no actual proof. But a hands on inspection will help convince anyone interested.
Tired and Retired, as to the fourth group you mention. If you ever buy a gun (or anything) from me, you will know what it is. Warts and all.
I really enjoy the M 1 Carbine, and it's history... The many wars it defended the USA are testament to its usefullness and value...

Jim

I'm in group 1/2! I collect the very rare carbines but shoot them too! I know some consider that a sacrilage; how dare I shoot them?. But that is what they were made for, and all have been shot before. I have 1 original and several restorations. I also have a number of arsenal rebuilds. Aside from an NPM/U that I'm selling, the most common carbines that I have are an M1A1 restoration and an UN-QUALITY. The rest of the collection is various line-outs. I also shoot these rifles and even compete at the Nationals with some of them. Like I said, I'm in group 1/2........

Jimb,

I might consider purchasing your NPM/U from you if we can neogotiate a negative interest financing deal – the longer I take to pay it off, the less I owe!
Seriously, I'm having to buy a bigger safe before I buy another gun. What is the asking price for one like that anyway - just curious....

'Sounds like this came from the "humper's" bible'

What? The OP was recommending a carbine restoration that was simply an overall Parkerizing. I thought he should know that while it looks to be an excellent job (great color, etc.), 'the devil is in the details' as they say. I expect when someone uses the term 'restoration' that it's a passable restoration, not just a Park job. I do apologize to the OP for the harshness of my opening statement. I also had no intention of giving secret information to any humpers, and don't believe I did. Looking that post over again, I can see where several of my points do not apply to many carbines from various makers and serial number ranges - they're too general to be of any real use, and no mention was made of the various 'bluing' solutions/surface preps used from time to time. I don't think I've seen a restored carbine that could come close to fooling me, and I'm definitely not an expert. I think we've all seen people selling re-blued small parts, and of course it's true that many rebuilt carbines were totally Parkerized just like the OP's. You just wouldn't call those 'restorations'.

Guys I am sorry to have started a sh*tstorm. The receiver, slide and trigger housing I had reparked HAD VERY LITTLE FINISH left on it. The person I was helping would like to have a nice looking rifle that he can go out and shoot and be proud of its appearance. He is not going to sell it or misrepresent it as original. I had all the parts correctly finished in what would have been appropriate for the serial number range. The parts that should have been parked were parked and the parts that should have been dulite were dulited.
Nobody wants to drive around in an ugly 1963 split window Corvette and my friend dose'nt want to shoot an ugly M1 Carbine (which now looks great). There are very few people who use zinc to repark, they use manganiese (sp) and I thought I would pass the info along to you guys. Anyone who has collected these rifles should easily know how to spot a restoration, I do.
I will refrain from posting any advice regarding restoring a Carbine in the future. Again my apologies go out to who ever I upset.:bash:

PBI,
I for one don't feel a apology is called for.
You've cleared up what we needed to know about the Park service.
The guys offering the re-park should show an example with some of the Dulite finish.
That's where most of the questions arose from.
Collectors can decide how they want their firearms to look.
This is still the USA.....right?

Thanks Again
Charlie

PBI, I ordered a CMP Winchester a while back. When I received it, my first impression was that is one ugly piece. Since it was mine and I could do with it as I saw fit, I decided to make it look nice. I replaced the parts that were not Winchester (not trying to make it correct but used no repo parts) including the stock. Fortunately I found what I needed, replaced them and sent it all to DGR to be made pretty. He reparked all metal, reworked the stock and sent it back to me. It is a very nice looking shooter that I have no intention of selling. As far as a collectable carbine, I have several that are exactly as they were when I purchased them and will never be tampered with as long as I have them.
I don’t think you owe anyone an apology.
BB

PBI, no apologies needed.
Personally, I feel this is a very informative thread.
Sh*tstorms are what keeps this forum alive. Without an occasional one, we would just keep rehashing the same old stuff!
And any thread that can get Tired Retired to the keyboard before coffee has got to be a keeper.

Just an opinion,
Phil

PBI, you are an honest guy and you are just trying to learn - its obvious from your attitude because you CARE. The board greatly appreciates honest guys. Don't let these old farts intimidate you. I enjoy the fact that I may be retired but I am still YOUNGER than most of them! And as far as a "Sh*tstorm", I wouldn't participate in a board where I couldn't stir one some up from time to time.


Now, back to your ORIGINAL posted topic. I would have preferred to see pics of the actual work on your friend’s carbine. The link you gave us of the similar work is not something I care for on my carbines. I can look past the extreme green of the color, but I do not like the thickness of the finish. The trigger housing pics look extremely thick to the point where markings are filled in. It looks like a really thick enamel paint that was brushed on – like a dancer with too much make-up!

I’m lucky in that the NPM that I just got from CPM appears to have been reparked during its last armory rebuild and then placed in storage. The park is no where as thick and I like it appearing “naturally” close to original. Guess I like my old gals “au natural”. Just my opinion…

I know I am still learning about these things. I wish I knew more about them and could contribute something meaningful to M1 Carbine collecting. I promise to try harder next time I decide to do something related to this hobby.

I'd appreciate that Paul,
Next time you set up and judge a National M1 Carbine Show like the ones in Bhama.........
Please get your act together !

I would like everyones opinion. - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

;-)
Charlie

I promise I will or I will start collecting Armatron watches instead of M1 Carbines!

Paul,

Any update on you bringing the Carbine show to Dallas next September? I'm already planning my 1,800 mile drive there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PBI

I promise I will or I will start collecting Armatron watches instead of M1 Carbines!

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Hahaha! Paul, Charlie got back to your tongue in cheek comment before I could! :rofl:

'Tired-retired' (Ed) didn't realize who you are and was trying to help. He's a good guy. He's kind of a 'newbie' here as far as membership. :lol:
(I was laughing when I read his post, and then about fell over when I read your comeback)

Now hang in there lil buddy and we'll try to teach you some stuff about your first carbine as fast as we can. :lol:

~ Harlan

(PS- You probably don't remember me because of all the people you were helping back then, but thanks for your advice and directions, etc to that first carbine show - It was worth the drive from Dallas!)

Thanks for your committment to school me. I do remember you and glad you made the trek to B'ham for the inagural (sp?) event. We are still working out the details on Dallas 2010. I will keep you posted on any developements regarding the show. I just did not realize that reparking a well worn shooter receiver was a cardinal sin to some. I want make that mistake again I promise.

'I just did not realize that reparking a well worn shooter receiver was a cardinal sin to some'

I hope I didn't give you that impression - I'm certainly not above having a gun refinished. I was just showing pics on another forum of a Colt Gov Model I had redone by the late, great Bill Adair. My point, which I unnecessarily hammered home, was that the shop should have done the small parts right as long as they took on the job. I'm sure they would have if they had just known the difference. Hang in there, man, don't give up on carbines. We are all still learning here and will be for life. Nobody knows it all, and there are still things being discovered about the carbine - it ain't over by a long shot. Oh, with apologies to the topic, here's my redone Colt.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/1953a-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/1953b-1.jpg

Hey Paul! I'll be the first to admit that I've got a lot to learn!!!! Are you going to be at any of the OGCA shows in the near future?

Inland, that is one beautiful looking Colt! Thanks for sharing.

Really a shame about the loss of Bill Adair, in so many ways. Never got to meet/deal with him, bu I never heard anything but the best about the man.

jimb16 planning to go in November, I am a student of these just like everyone else, still learning something everyday. This tread exploded over a simply process that sometimes needs to happen when a rifle needs refinishing. I understand about keeping the integrity of the rifle but when the finish is worn and gone it is time to do something to prevent more damage like rust. I think you know what type of M1 Carbine I like to collect but I am one who realizes that when these get used and the finish gets worn out after a while it is time to re-park the metal to save it. I don't shoot my show pieces but enjoy a nice looking example to go out and fire. Hopefully this tread will go away and I will learn to keep my mouth and fingers shut.
In the spirit of collecting
PBI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PBI

Hopefully this tread will go away and I will learn to keep my mouth and fingers shut.
In the spirit of collecting
PBI

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I wouldn't worry about it . . . something about carbines in particular that cause people to over react. :dunno: They are almost as bad as Luger collectors and not quite as bad as Colt SAA collectors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Faulkner

I wouldn't worry about it . . . something about carbines in particular that cause people to over react. :dunno: They are almost as bad as Luger collectors and not quite as bad as Colt SAA collectors.

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And that is why I never mention what I've done on either of those forums.
Those guys would be looking for a tall tree and a short rope for me!

But I have fun with my guns....

Phil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phil441

And that is why I never mention what I've done on either of those forums.

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I haven't done nuffin'.... and I don't care what the evidence says and that is NOT my DNA!

Common' Phil, not even a little hint???? And as far as the rest of you... fess up, you had to do SOMETHING to end up on this board!

It never ceases to amaze me, the lengths guys will go to buy a $300 US Martial rifle, and put $3000 into it, to "restore" it. Perhaps its a hobby? Like buying a zero clearance $2500 riding lawn mower for a postage stamp sized front lawn.

They are only original once. There were over a thousand sub contractor manufacturers for US M1 Carbine parts, and the prime mfg's swapped, traded, sold and bought parts from each other. That IN marked firing pin you sold at the gun show for $10? It was the one your rifle was issued with. That cheesy repark job you got for a bargain? Well done.

Problem is a smart buyer is going to break out a mic or a caliper. But hey? maybe you can sell it for a grand? Its all "original".

zertouche,
You make some good points.
How about these guys that restore vintage hot rods......I recently watched a auction, where the seller had $65 K in the restoration.......his rod sold for just over 1/2 that.

I love your "Like buying a zero clearance $2500 riding lawn mower for a postage stamp sized front lawn" quote.
I have a neighbor who mows every day. About a 1/3 acre with a small garage just full of every attachment made.

Your correct in saying their only original once. Anything after that should fall under maintenance and restoration.

I don't argue with seeing a part with no finish left being re-parked so it can be around another 50 years. Better to see it saved than watch it rust away.
Nothing wrong with PIMPING OUT a shooter.

Good Weekend To You
Charlie-painter777

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phil441

And that is why I never mention what I've done on either of those forums.
Those guys would be looking for a tall tree and a short rope for me!

But I have fun with my guns....

Phil

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Tell you what I did last year that'll make some folks skin crawl. I have a humble collection of carbines, I'm usually adding to the collection and seldom do I trade or sell one off. Even so, I had this one Winchester with a spring tube receiver and appeared to have it's original barrel, otherwise it was a typical post war upgraded carbine. I paid $400 for it a couple of years earlier and figured I could sell it easy enough at a gunshow for $600 to $700. So as to prove a point to myself I decided to disassemble it and sell it for parts. The outcome even surprised me a little as I ended up with a few bucks over $1,000 when parted out.

A couple of things I learned, I didn't realize Winchester barrels and trigger housings were in such high demand. Spring tube receivers seem to be popular too.

It was a lot of fun.

I agree Paul. Sometimes a shooter just need help. Its time to weigh originality which we all know exists in only a very few surviving examples and preserving its integrity as a functional, if no longer original piece of history. If you owned a modern shotgun and you used it every week to shoot skeet or trap, wouldn't you take care of it? Wouldn't you replace the firing pin if it broke? It would no longer be original....But how much value has it lost? Its a judgement call. If it was my primary shooter, I wouldn't hesitate to get the work done. After all we all need to clean our guns ( that necessarily causes some wear; however minor). So I really consider it to be a type of maintenance. Like you, I wouldn't do it to the special collectors, but............

I agree. While I don't have an "original as it left the factory" Underwood carbine (though they are a treasure to find), my carbine has a history of its own. It was a US government rebuild then saw service in Israel. I would not think of "restoring it" for two reasons: One because it has a significant and honorable history in its post rebuild state. Second, as my only carbine at the moment, it is my "shooter." As it is my shooter, I took off the cartouched stock and handguard to protect it, and replaced the I.E. flip safety with a push type (an expensive "EW" but that is all I had) because it replicates the Remington 870 police shotgun safety that is second nature to me after 20 years. None of these are permanent, and its original stuff can be returned to it with no personal damage.

I submit as has been said often on this forum, that we loose track of the fact that as we get them now, they are original for how they saw service for Bavaria and Austria, Korea and Vietnam, then Israel, Greece, and Italy, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

I agree. While I don't have an "original as it left the factory" Underwood carbine (though they are a treasure to find), my carbine has a history of its own. It was a US government rebuild then saw service in Israel. I would not think of "restoring it" for two reasons: One because it has a significant and honorable history in its post rebuild state. Second, as my only carbine at the moment, it is my "shooter." As it is my shooter, I took off the cartouched stock and handguard to protect it, and replaced the I.E. flip safety with a push type (an expensive "EW" but that is all I had) because it replicates the Remington 870 police shotgun safety that is second nature to me after 20 years. None of these are permanent, and its original stuff can be returned to it with no personal damage.

I submit as has been said often on this forum, that we loose track of the fact that as we get them now, they are original for how they saw service for Bavaria and Austria, Korea and Vietnam, then Israel, Greece, and Italy, etc.

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And as I posted in an earlier thread concerning what is a valid Carbine,

"My little carbine with all the updates has probably seen a whole lot more than I ever will. Or wish to."

Phil

The US Dept. of Defense (or War Dept) did everything in its power to change parts, or upgrade them in todays phrase. They owned the firearms and they were paid for, years prior.

Someone can throw parts and money at them, like there is no tomorrow, but why? Does it work? Does it function? It is what it is. I suppose its the underlying reason why some guys get their head hair transplanted from their abundant. posterior follicles. Why some men have their wives get plastic breast implants.

It is what it is unless you are trying to sell it for mo than it is. Too bad flea bay wont let you sell rifles eh? Well, there is always Gunbroke. Some fool will bite. If you post it long enough.

I guess this tread will never die, reminds me of the cow scene on the movie Me, Myself and Irene.

would be more like it-or maybe the Great Race! I always like real stupid movies. Too each his own till you sell it and then be honest with your buyers or bidders. No $700 gun is worth ruining ones reputation over trying to squeeze somebody for a extra $500 out of it, anyone doing so just priced their reputation about the same as a low end call girl. I have restored many carbines and have done some of the unmentionable but firmly believe I restored a piece of history as you see them restoring tanks and what not today with any means possible. I have not nor will never use a fake cartouche stamp on a original piece of wood. Now if I had the original stamp and a NOS stock I would probably swing the hammer!! Now lets see what kind of fireworks that statement starts. I speak from experience and have no shame of what I did nor I will I sell it. I longterm am unsure how I will ever sell it than purely document what I did and how.

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Does anyone have a documented original stamp?

From the errors we see, I am guessing these are being made from pictures of stamps. Some not even good pictures.