Navy arms RFI .308 rifles

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10-09-2009, 06:29 PM
Engine49guy

Navy arms RFI .308 rifles

I recently aquired 2 RFI Ishapore rifles in .308 caliber.
The first is a standard length rifle with forward ramp site in .308.

The second is a carbine,
It was described as a "Navy Arms" conversion" although I cannot find any markings with that name.

It has a shortened appearence similar to a No.5 Jungle carbine complete with muzzle flash cone and bayonet.
There are several noticable differences from a standard No.5 Jungle Carbine I notice such as sites, buttstock pad, wood stocks, The most noticeable is the different magazine being chambered for .308 NATO.

Can anyone tell me a bit about these and their approximate values?
Also, Very curious if they were converted after they left the Ishapore factory, Or were they originally made to be .308?

These pictures are identicle to my rifle except mine is a 1965 and says 7.62mm2A instead of 2A1.
Thanks
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...avyArms1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...avyarms2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...avyarms3-1.jpg
10-09-2009, 07:17 PM
Stevo

They were manufactured in 7.62 NATO and "bubbafied" into carbines in the US.
10-09-2009, 07:51 PM
RJW NZ

Despite comments about bubbae etc I really liked mine, cheap to feed and fun to shoot.
10-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Stevo

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJW NZ

Despite comments about bubbae etc I really liked mine, cheap to feed and fun to shoot.

They're kinda like a moped, cheap, fun to drive and they get you where you want to go. You just don't want your Harley-riding buddies to see you on one.

If they were available in Canada, I'd pick one up. They'd make a great truck gun. Mount an Aimpoint and a muzzle brake and you'd be good to go.
10-09-2009, 10:24 PM
Engine49guy

When I hear Bubbafied I think garage and hacksaw.
Were these converted by a legitamite company?
I have heard the name Navy arms but cant think of what they make...
Was it single action revolvers?
Took a pic of the 2 together..
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG38351-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...CIMG3832-1.jpg
10-10-2009, 03:33 AM
blacksan

Those rifles where converted in a now defunct shop in Martinsburg, WV. Gibbs/Navy Arms at one time was a neat place to visit because they had tons of stuff stacked in there shop and it was a treasure hunt smeared with cosmo.
10-10-2009, 04:45 AM
RJW NZ

Hey, Engine 49er, the bubba name has come about more because purists don't like to see a good gun 'improved' with mods that make it less of a gun afterwards and ruin any collectibility too. In fact most of the work they did was adequate by gun modifier standards, and there were also one of two stories about some shoddy work, so these have lingered in peoples minds. Overall though the guns they made are in fact pretty popular with people who own them.
If the price is right buy, don't hesitate.
10-10-2009, 09:08 PM
Engine49guy

Thanks for the help.
Brought them to the range with some cheap Indian ammo I had laying around.
Shot great.
Great fun for a day of informal shooting.
10-10-2009, 09:20 PM
blacksan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine49guy

Thanks for the help.
Brought them to the range with some cheap Indian ammo I had laying around.
Shot great.
Great fun for a day of informal shooting.

I also have one that I bought years ago and it is fun to shoot. Mine has a good bore and also reasonably accurate too. I guess the folks at Gibbs where sober/happy when they made mine.......... :D I only wished I would have purchased another as they where pretty dam cheap at the time.
10-11-2009, 12:55 AM
RJW NZ

Last USA gunshows I was at the 45/70 conversions were constantly over $400, and I always noticed people online asking for them too.

Story; at that Costa Mesa show in 2003 ish a buddy and I were lingering at the end of the day and someone walked in carrying two rifles, navy arms, jungle carbine and a stock but nice ishapore. He was trying to get beer money from the rifle sale. I helped him by getting the carbine, and at first glance down the bore it was blocked with something, so I blew and sucked and tried my best but what ever it was wouldn't come out so I took a gamble on the bore and for $100 it was mine.
Later I poked a dowel through a bore and a bludy big black widow fell out. Moral of the story? Don't suck on the end of a cheap gun barrel, you could get a lot more than bargained for.

It turned out to be one of my favorite shooters.

Now that you own one of these shall we say 'illegitimate' enfields, I tried one at the range that had two slots cut across the top of the flash cone. It completely did away with muzzle rise!
A gun shop was making them and they're available online, but you have the kind of rifle thats forgiving of worthwhile experiments like that, just a thort.
10-12-2009, 07:47 PM
Engine49guy

When I bought the full length Isha, It came with a package of extra parts and an extra stock.
In other words everything needed to convert the 308 jungle rifle back to a full length rifle except the barrel.
Eventually I will sell the package, doubt I will go through the hassle of converting it back.
10-12-2009, 08:24 PM
blacksan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine49guy

When I bought the full length Isha, It came with a package of extra parts and an extra stock.
In other words everything needed to convert the 308 jungle rifle back to a full length rifle except the barrel.
Eventually I will sell the package, doubt I will go through the hassle of converting it back.

Thats interesting, I've never seen that combo before... I often thought I would also like to scrounge one of the Gibs Summit 45-70's but haven't scored one yet.
10-12-2009, 09:26 PM
HotTom

I think Stevo is a little over the top (read: out of line) using the term "Bubba" with these guns. To me, that term does imply a hacksaw and an amateur conversion.

I own a couple dozen Enfields of many types that are collector items including several sniper rifles, all correct.

My Ishy "JC" clearly is no collector piece. But it was professionally modified and it's a fun plinking rifle. I don't have to apologize for it when I take it to the range. It runs just fine on cheap surplus ammo. That's what I bought it for.

The term "Bubba," to me, has the connotation of someone who doesn't know what he's doing modifying a rifle with the result of ruining it.

A well done sporter isn't a "Bubba" job, either, although I've taken several and put them back in their original military configuration. Whoever "sporterized" them did a very nice job, though.

Same with the Ishy "JC."

HT
10-13-2009, 07:50 AM
Peter Laidler

Are you an ex Tankie Hot Tom? I have a Centurion ARV!
10-13-2009, 08:00 AM
Badger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Are you an ex Tankie Hot Tom? I have a Centurion ARV!

I am ... :thup:

Back in the early 60's, I had a Troop Sergeant who was an ex-Panzer commander during the war. He made us learn and sing (Panzerlied) in both English and German.

We used to sing it as we marched out to the tank park in the morning to mount our Sherman M4A2E8's for the day. He always used to whine about not having a Panther to work with. :lol:

Also cross trained on the Centurion before Canada switched to the Leopard tank.

Brings back memories .... :)

Here's some 40+ year old pics from my very first day on the tank ranges as a fresh young Crew Commander. Two of my first few engagements (different tanks) at 1,500 to 2,800 yards were captured in the color pics below. What the second one didn't show was the result of the 76mm back blast spinning me around in the turret, blowing my beret off my head and over the back deck, plus burning (singe effect) my eyebrows and hair bad enough that it crumbled to the touch. :) Of course, I straightened myself up and tried to look "very cool" to all of my buddies watching. :lol:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/Tank7M-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/Tank6M-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Tank10M-1.jpg

Regards,
Badger

==================================
Qualifications:

Sherman (M4A2E8) & Centurion
Group 3 Gunner (RCAC)
Group 2 Driver Mechanic Tracked (RCAC)
Group 2 Signaler (RCAC)
CC and Troop Leader Instructor
10-13-2009, 12:32 PM
HotTom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Are you an ex Tankie Hot Tom? I have a Centurion ARV!

LOL, Peter, you really had me scratching my head on that question til I looked at my avatar :madsmile:

No, I used to restore military vehicles as a hobby and my all time favorite was a Ferret (with a live full auto Browning M1919 on it; Arizona has very enlightened gun laws) that spent much of its active duty life in the 17th/21st Lancers. It's in a museum now. I sort of adopted their cap badge as my avatar.

In my twisted sense of humor (humour?) I find some irony in using the symbol of one of the units that led The Charge of the Light Brigade. There is a rather sick expression in the US Army for those who earn dubious distinctions: "That is like being named 'Soldier of the Month' in the Light Brigade." :runaway:

In fact, I'm a retired US Army Military Police officer (5 years Regular Army; 23 years Army Reserve). They never gave me anything more exotic than an M151 Jeep and an M1911A1 pistol to play with. Sometimes the Army actually knows what it's doing :o

HT