I have a 13-year old grandson who wants to start deer hunting with his dad (I don't hunt) and we wanted some suggestions for a deer rifle. Something economical and something that would fit with his slender build.
Ideas? Thanks in advance!
RtL
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I have a 13-year old grandson who wants to start deer hunting with his dad (I don't hunt) and we wanted some suggestions for a deer rifle. Something economical and something that would fit with his slender build.
Ideas? Thanks in advance!
RtL
A new Savage in .243 would be a good choice. You could get one in a wood stock and shorten the LOP if needed.
What deer being hunted?
Something here on the Sound side or east?
And something try for Elk??
How big is the grand son?
Maybe a bolt action using a 7-08 or 270? get a youth stock then replace when he's finished growing.
Or what red-blooded Americn boy, wouldn't be appreciative of a 30/30 lever action???
I think a rifle, new or used, in the .264 caliber group isnt a bad choice. It belongs for the deers (normal sice) and its easy to handle also for a 13 year old boy. The ammo is cheap and you have a great choice like norma, lapua federal and so on.
Regards
Gunner
I've had FANTASTIC success w/ .223 Rem on deer the past couple of years. Just have to ensure proper bullet construction. Winchester makes a good 62gr deer load if your sticking to factory ammo. Nosler 60gr Partitions are hard to beat, but I don't know of a factory load w/ this bullet. Either way, they work fine as long as shots are in the chest cavity SOMEWHERE. I actually prefer forward shoulder/ low neck shots as the deer have yet to take another step w/ shots in this area. I tried some farther back (high lung shot aft of shoulder but still fwd of the diaphragm) for experimental purposes and can't tell any difference from the 30 cals. Its quite amazing! (Actually DEVASTATING was my impression- 20" bbl rifles run the velocity up enough to liquify the lungs- they've all sloshed when moved!)
If your boy can shoot well under pressure I reckon most any caliber will work given proper bullet construction, but 223 and 243 have less recoil than most rounds so it may make him a better shot.
BTW I'm now using a well constructed 55gr bullet that stops 'em like nothing I've ever seen. Scary!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian
If you are looking at new merchandise look at H&R Handi Rifles. They aren't very expensive and shoot quite accurately.
Another rifle that represents excellent value for money spent is the Marlin XL7 bolt action rifle. They sell for $319 in our store. They have a good trigger similar to the Savage "accu-trigger". You can spend the savings on a good scope and have a very nice rig.
Like another poster stated, get a youth model (if necessary for his size) and they can be up-dated later.
If you are looking at previously owned, you will just have to see what is available.
HTH,
Emri
Deer in Eastern Washington -no elk or anything big. The .243 might be interesting, if I could find one for less than an arm and a leg. The .223 is intriguing, as he has shot mine - I still wonder about the killing power, not that I'm an expert or anything.
Appreciate the suggestions and any more that people might have.
I have hunted eastern whitetailed deer for over 30 years. I have killed them at any distance from hard off the muzzle to across a peanut patch. I have had to shoot a few more than once. With care a .223 will do fine on small and up to even medium sized deer. You do have to put the bullet into the right spot, but then that is true with any caliber. A .243 w/ good quality bullets will be very effective. If you anticipate a "raking" shot may be necessary, then use something a little heavier. A Swedish 6.5mm w/ 140 gr. bullets would be excellent. The same is true of the 7-08 w/ 140 gr. bullets. A .30-30 in either Marlin (my favorite) or Winchester would be very good. A .270 w/ 130 gr. bullets on up to a .308/.30-06 is right at the top end of what is needed to effectively kill deer.
Realistically any of the above calibers will be fine up to 100 yds. Beyond that distance, one might want to drop the .223 and look at the .30-30. Beyond 150 yds., a .243 is about the minimum.
Given my own experience with my daughters, I would suggest you select a rifle/caliber that your g.son will be able to physically handle w/o difficulty. Also try to see to it that they get to practice with it at some reasonable range so that they can build confidence in their own shooting skills. Shooting at game targets will help them learn proper bullet placement. JMVHO. Good luck and good hunting! Sincerely. BruceV.
It's hard to answer your question without knowing a little more about your grandson and some of the earlier posters have commented on this. That's because not all rifles or calibers fit all people - you have to take several factors into consideration.
I started my sons out shooting .22 rifle at targets until they could consistently hit the target at 100yards. Then I moved them up to .243 which I consider as minimum for whitetail deer hunting (even though lesser calibers are quite capable). I let them shoot does with the .243 but always stressed the importance of shot placement with such a light bullet. The .243 has low recoil, and is a great starter hunter caliber for light game. Once my boys wanted to shoot bucks, knowing how pumped up they are in the rut, I consider .243 to be marginal and moved them up to shooting 6.5 X 55 Swedish rifles made by Ruger and using 140 grain bullets. This calibre is a very competent calibre when it comes to hunting in North America and my boys do all their hunting with these rifles now - they never found the need to move up to the 30 calibres and the increased recoil.
Look for a sporterised swede in 6.5x55.
Before I spent a lot on a youth gun or even a small caliber that may not be sufficient for some North Ameican game, keep in mind how quickly they grow at that age. My son loved shooting his 30.06's when he was thirteen and had no problems. He was average size. (About the same size as most of the kids on his little league baseball team)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3800x600-1.jpg
He just turned 16 August 1 and he's a moose now. This is last week. (Yes, I'm his real dad) ;)
A youth or cut down rifle would have been a waste for him and I'd have been looking to sell it a couple of years ago. (Youth guns can be difficult to sell)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...800x6001-1.jpg
Is this going to be a surprise gift? If not maybe you should get his input first.
Coming from his granddad, he might want a rifle he can use for the rest of his life!
~ Harlan
As i said a .264 rifle (6.5x55 or 6.5x57) and he has a lifetime rifle. Later a .30 cal one, and he has everything that he need for your hunting game.
Best Regards
Gunner
Heck, the fellows in the above pic are killing them w/ little sticks! Shot placement (big #1) and (sufficient)penetration get the job done.
Rick,
Why don't you ask the kid what he likes? And offer a little guidance along the way. I gave my nephew a swede in 6.5 when he was about that age. His father cut the stock down for him. A 30/30 or .32 special is a good choice. A Savage 99 in .243, .250 or .300 is good.
If the kid likes a bolt gun, a short rifle in .243 or .257 Roberts can be a good choice.
When we were that age we all had rolling blocks in .43 Spanish! easy to carry, anyway.
What the kid might enjoy more is if you went along. You could cook and keep camp, or kind of amble through the woods and move the deer around for him.
jn
My son has a Marlin 30-30 and it kicks like a mule - I'd rather shoot a bolt-action 30-06. He's tried it and doesn't like it. Maybe the .243 or a sporterized Swede?
What bullet weight you shot in the 30/30 ? The 170gr is a stomper. The 150gr loads aren't bad at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian
You could still get a large caliber rifle for him. Remington now makes loads in 30/30, 270, 30/06, and 308 that they call "Managed Recoil". They are loaded with lighter bullets and special powders to reduce recoil up to 50%. (50% is their claim) I haven't fired any, but many customers like them for their kids and women folk.
FWIW,
Emri
Hi Emri,
i dont know anything about the hunting rules/laws? ( Hope thats correct ) but here the bullets must have a specific energy ( Joule ) that means your bullet must have a energy from 2000joule at 100m that it is allowed to hunt deers with it. So normaly the softer loads doesnt have the energy at 100metres. But as i said i dont know anything of your game.
Regards
Gunner
The 243 is a good one to start off with. For a slim kid just starting off, the 270 and other 06 case calibers can be a little punishing to practice with. The Marlin 30-30, as someone else said, can also be a good one. Whatever you get, would be good to have a recoil pad for that boney shoulder.
Is measured in foot/pounds (ft./lbs.) here. I've heard the term Joule here but don't remember what it relates to. I thought it was electricity.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner
Yes, some states here DO have a minimum energy @ 100 yards as a big game requirement, but not all of them. Colorado does I know because I lived there for a while. Probably more Western states do also because the game is larger. Alabama where I live now does not. It doesn't take much to down a 100/150 lb. Eastern Whitetail. Except hunting skill and shot placement of course. But don't laugh, you wouldn't believe how much damage they can do to an automobile !!
Thanks for bringing that up, I hadn't thought of that aspect of the matter.
FWIW,
Emri
Rick.
i have a Remington M660 in .308 winchester in my sale safe.
it was set up for a female shooter friend of mine,
if you contact me, id be happy to tell you more about it, and pics.
I think a lever action is the single worst choice for a kid. When unloading, they have to rack each round through the chamber, (and the hammer is back) and the finger is pretty doggon close to the trigger! I think a 788 in .243 or 7MM-08 would be a good choice. My .02 c. :yikes:
For a new hunter on the small side I don't think you can go far wrong with a sporter Swedish mauser 6.5x55. It's inexpensive and accurate and very deadly on deer.
I really struggled to find something for my very recoil sensitive son when he was 13. I settled on a 7mm-08 as we go for antelope, deer, and elk here in Utah. When he first got the rifle, I loaded up light loads with 120gr bullets and he had no problem with them. Now that he's 17, I'm using 140gr bullets and what I'd consider normal loads.
I ran into the Vanguard Youth model (Vanguard® Youth/Compact | Rifles | Products | Weatherby.com) by accident in a gun store. It has a 17" barrel, I think, and came with TWO stocks, one youth sized and one adult sized. That took care of the "out grow" it issue and it's a really handy sized rifle, even now that he's using the adult stock. He already plans to use it for his kids (hopefully some time in the future!). Another advantage is that it has a short action that saves a little weight and overall length.
We just finished a range session to get ready for an antelope hunt and Evan was getting 2" groups (3 shot) at 300 yards no sweat. The rifle/cartridge is real accurate and with a 200 yard zero, he can hold hard at any range to 300 yards and take his animal.
Depending on the young man's size , recoil tolerance , and the animals/hunting conditions :
Either a a 7mm'08 , a .308 , or a 243. I stay away from anything but Nosler Partitions in the .243 for deer .
A .308 with the heavier military style cases , loaded with a medium/mild charge of 3031 and a 150 Nosler has done well on deer in the the hands of wives and kids. Another possibility is to replace the 172 BT FMJ bullets in LC 7.62 Match with 150 Partitions . The NP mushrooms well at somewhat slower than typical .308 velocity.
Something like a .260 Rem might be great ,too. But I have zero experience with that cartridge.
Hope this helps.
A couple of years ago I loaned my niece, who is a light weight, my marlin lever in .357 mag ( they also come in 44) and she shot a nice sized doe with it. NO recoil, light and cheap ammo. She has since moved on to a BLR in 308.
Clint
That would be a good choice Clint for someone who has a small frame.
My dad had a rifle just like your's and you are correct, there is very little recoil and they are light.
When my son was about 9 year old I bought him a Ruger semi-auto in .44 cal. and it had very little recoil at all.
Don't remember what Ruger called it and this is the only photo I have of it.
It looked like a Ruger 10/22 on steroids and was also a pretty good rifle for a small person.
He sold it to get money for his 1903 when he was 13 though and all he cares about are milsurps today. (Go figure)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g800x600-3.jpg
The stupid thing is that I have failed to plant deer as securely w/ a 44 mag than w/ .223 rem on multiple occasions. Shot placement was fine, just wasn't a DRT situation. I HATE tracking deer, partly because I usually sleep during the day and tracking EATS daylight. I also don't use ATV's so between dragging and processing, there's not a lot of extra time to get everything done in a 25(!) hour waking period.
ETA No deer today (Oct 17)! Will be using .223 until deer 1, then maybe my super secret load for my 25-35 Win '94, then who knows? 10 deer limit in Ga., plus there's Tennessee (near Oak Ridge) now until Jan 1. Keep enough meat then donate some to friends and Hunters for the Hungry. Dang things breed like rabbits down here, heck, I've seen way more deer than rabbits in these parts.
Moore,
10 deer? I'll be right down, soon aS i CAN SELL MY HOUSE!
JN
Oops! Sorry, not 10. ITS 12!!! Tasty, tasty! And low fat too...
BTW No one that I know has brought anything home yet. You get overrun w/ the critters until opening day and then, POOF! No deer. How do they know?
I built a 6.55X55 sporter in 1968.
I worked at a gunshop after school and the smith guided me through the conversion.
I can't count the deer and antelope that have been bagged with that little darling. I sold it twice and bought it back twice. It's a man sized rifle with mild recoil and will reach out and touch things.
Mine is the carbine version and it is handy. The short barrel makes it a natural for tree stands.
Ammo price is the downside, but it likes re-loads.
Based on the two specific requirements (slender 13 year old / economical) - I would go with the Savage .243 that was suggested earlier. They are definitely inexpensive, and they definitely will work on white tail deer. I started all of my sons on one, and they work just fine, and cost under $400 out the door. I use a Remington 700 in 30-06 myself, but when I have a guest that likes a bigger rifle, or when my adult Army son gets to hunt, I let them use mine, and I will use the .243. I have taken 3 deer with it, no issues, no problems.
Regards
Pat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian
I am generally quite impressed with any of the old military calibers circa 1900 as deer cartridges. In fact about all that has happened is more choices but little improvement or usability. My choice is the Swede although the .260 Remington appears to be a clone of the Swede. I too like the .243 as it came be had nearly anywhere.
I would suggest a .243 Remington 700 the rifles are very robust, and accurate any scope is easily mounted to suite the users. The rifle is light weight which when stalking is important, as you have to carry it!! I would also suggest that the rifle be fitted with a plastic stock, which will allow the rifle to be used in all conditions without affecting performance.
The important part to bear in mind will be that the .243, is not like a .303 and will not scare him to progressing to the larger, and more fun calibres as he grows up with the rifle. It also has very similar characteristics as 7.62/308 up to 600 yards, but without travelling those sorts of distance.
Why don't you look aroiund and see what's out there. When you find something you like. post it. See what the members think of your selection. Then make your decision.
One more thing. Never take advice from anyone who shoots a 505 Gibbs.
55gr SP .223 rem takes a decent 8-pointer at 150yds. Went about 100 or so yds and collasped (hit was too far forward and low). Pics later mebbe.
ETA The deer was way further out (and rather bigger) than I thought and there was heavy undergrowth all over, obscuring things in a major way. After about 10-15 minutes of watching them feed, I finally found a hole big enough to thread a bullet through, trying for a solid shoulder shot. Bullet struck low neck above both windpipe and esophagus, leaving both intact, but the projectile still did enough damage to create an exellent blood trail from the exit point. (Don't think it even cut a major artery.) Worst hit I've made in ages, but it still worked as well as anything else I've used. Sierra SP bullets have worked real well in this application for me at a muzzle vel. of 3200fps.-even this time, at the longish distance for this kind of hunting(stalking and still hunting).
So- just a little more data.
any brand name .243
savage, ruger, rem, win, cz, sako, tikka,
whatever you can find at gun shop, gun show, new or gently used
just DO IT to get another young hunter in the field
Rt(R)L:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian
Go for a .30 caliber bolt action rifle, somethng that will be useful for his life-time. Remington, Ruger, Savage, whatever. My grand-daughters were able to fire my M1A, (7.62mm), from a rest, at an early age; the recoil is relative for the young person. I don't agree on the .223 caliber, as it's marginal caliber at best for large game, unless you can shoot the eye out at 100 yards, that sort of shooting, it''ll work. If money is the primary criteria, then an surplus 8mm would do nicely. Hope this helps.
Hey Rick,
Handled a Savage model 99 60's vintage rifle at the last local show. Nice short carbine and has great balance. Very sleek and cool looking rifle. $550.00 like new. Don't know how hard Savage .300 kicks but it might be a good choice. The size might be right for your grandson. Lever action. Think they have a very good rep and have taken a lot of deer over the decades.
LB
Hard to beat a .30-30 levergun. It's as American as apple pie! And you might be surprised at what young boys can shoot, and how well they can do it! Here's my grandson at 11, he was hitting a 4.5" bullseye at 100 yards! Blew my mind.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
I know you're probably looking for a commercial rifle to purchase off the shelf.
This is what I built for my son when he was 10.
It was a Brazilian 1908 Mauser. The only thing I retained was the action. Drilled and tapped, bolt cut and rewelded and safety changed. Stock trigger reworked to single stage with 4# pull.
Hot blued in the garage.
I added a NOS surplus FN 19" barrel in 7x57mm and a Richard's MicroFit stock second with a slight blemish. It originally had a thin rifle pad. We later added the full pad to lengthen the stock.
Topped off with Redfield mount, rings and Bushnell Sportview scope.
Total cost back in 1993 with me doing all the work... just over $200.
Started him off with low end minimum loads.
He is now 25 and still uses it.
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i just picked up a cz 762x39 bolt action same bal as 3030 with no kick grandson loves it
Honestly, I am a HUGE believer is starting them off early with an appreciation for interesting legendary calibers.
For is age and size, a 6.5x55 or a 7x57 would be great choices that he will never grow out of. A Ruger M77MkII in stainless in 7x57 would be a very hard starter gun to beat for a factory firearm IMHO, and they come with a nice set of steel rings and integral mounts to boot.
I like blued steel and walnut personally, but for a first gun with maintenance and proper care still unlearned, a stainless gun is the way to go until he gets experience under his belt :)
Ditto on the 6.5x55 Swedish. Tikka T3 would be a fine choice in that caliber.
That's a mighty interesting rifle, been meaning to try one some day. I keep thinking that a custom match chambered .308" x39 ought to as accurate as anything else out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by DICK PRIES
To Jmore I Have A 223 And The 762x39 Both Are The Best Shooters I Have Dick
Guys
CZ makes a nice bolt-action carbine in 7.65x39, detachable box, walnut stock, short action. I'm tempted.
jn
Remington Model 788 in .243 Winchester.
My solution was a Savage lever action in 300 Savage. Had to buy a second one for myself. It offers light weight, accuracy, quick follow-up shots, dependability, safe operation, minimal recoil, easy loading, minimal maintenance, and one shot kills. Nice part is, you never grow out of it.
Jim
I started out hunting at 14 with my first gun, a Rem700 in 30-06 :)
I am still addicted to the 30-06 in its myriad available delivery systems.
Dan