M2 in Korea: efficacy or accuracy problems

I was previewing some video material about the Korean war for later use in my History class. I tripped across a War Department documentary about the war made about 1955. (Boy, do they show it in their best light!). In that and several other videos it showed M2 carbines being employed in full auto. Problem was, they were "John Wayne" spraying and praying from the hip. No aiming. No wonder they had a poor reputation with some, especially if you don't even hit what you are supposedly shooting at!

What I saw in the videos supports what I have read that lack of proper fire control discipline was more the problem than the weapon itself.

I've shot various full autos from the hip (including an M2). Granted, up close you can do some damage, but past CQB distances hip shooting a full auto is worthless, except maybe area suppression fire, but still a waste.

I also read a lot of stories about rounds bouncing off Chicom quilted clothing. Up at the cabin I took a quilt that the mice had gotten to over the winter and packed it solidly into a 4 gallon paint box that was 13" deep. Shooting through the 13" dimension, the rounds passed right through. While I don't question the sincerity of those who believe the rounds bounced off, I do question the accuracy of those reports.
FWIW
YMMV

Maybe shooting from the hip......to warm her up?

Charlie

IMO: shooting from the hip.Full auto??? I shoot quite abit with my SA thompson, Polish tantal, and M1's. It's fun to me as as you shoot you can walk the rounds to the target.Lets say about 50 yds.

Yeah, its fun to shoot from the hip. I like to walk the rounds to the target... but. In the REAL world, it is better to quickly aim, even if it is just across the top of the weapon, and shoot one round than to waste half of a magazine getting it there. Before the 3 round burst gizmos, I could regularly regulate an UZI, MP5, or XM177/M16 to three round burst. Do it enough, and it becomes muscle memory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Yeah, its fun to shoot from the hip. I like to walk the rounds to the target... but. In the REAL world, it is better to quickly aim, even if it is just across the top of the weapon, and shoot one round than to waste half of a magazine getting it there. Before the 3 round burst gizmos, I could regularly regulate an UZI, MP5, or XM177/M16 to three round burst. Do it enough, and it becomes muscle memory.

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True words!

Regards

Gunner

Yep, Rock-N-Roll is a lot of fun ,,,,,,, when the government is paying for the ammo :D

I used to have a registered M2 and I'll tell you, it can be quite accurate in full auto IF you aim. It was quite easy to hold on target at 50 yards and keep most shots in a shillouette target. But you had to aim! The two main problems were full auto fire without aiming and trying to use the carbine at ranges beyond the practical limits of the firearm. By the time the enemy got close enough to hit, lack of fire discipline could easily have un a soldier out of ammo.

I agree. The farthest I used an M2 Carbine was about 35 yards inside our 25 yard Police Range. I did three to five shot bursts and easily kept them all in the 9 and 10 on a B27 full size target. That was with an M1A1 repro folding stock (we were experimenting with it as a possible entry weapon). I did a couple hundred rounds that day. I preferred it to the UZI and the MP5s we had (except the suppressed MP5SD). It had more thump and was more accurate at 100 yards. I still have the 2 "Jahn" 30s and one "OKay" that I used. They were for my M1. The department just had some crappo aftermarkets.

They are effective under 100 yards, especially with the correct ammo. I use 110 JSP Remington. After all, I did kill a 175+ pound deer with one shot with my M1!

If I was rich and lived in a class 3 state, I would have a registered M2! There is a possibility now of moving to Coos Bay area where we own a rental in Oregon in 4 years when I retire from teaching. Now I just have to get rich!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Yeah, its fun to shoot from the hip. I like to walk the rounds to the target... but. In the REAL world, it is better to quickly aim, even if it is just across the top of the weapon, and shoot one round than to waste half of a magazine getting it there. Before the 3 round burst gizmos, I could regularly regulate an UZI, MP5, or XM177/M16 to three round burst. Do it enough, and it becomes muscle memory.

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I agree; I learned quickly while in the Army.M16 on the full auto range. Aim and bump trigger,2-3 round burst. I could hit the 20 popup targets with less than 3 mags[60 rounds] But I only have semiauto's so hipshooting is fun. :surrender:

Even when I was a kid watching the evening news of Vietnam I wondered how many rounds ever actually hit anyone.

Has there ever been a ratio tallied of hits per rounds fired during this period?

I remember seeing a lot of guys almost casually holding M16's over their heads in bunkers to spray and pray while not even looking.

...the first full auto I shot was a '28 thompson with a 50 rd drum , at a junked car at about 30-50 yds down in a pit. Found out how accurate aimed , short bursts could be. The first few FAs I bought were light for thier ammo ( m16s , M2s) and not nearly as controlable. I learned and bought / traded for heavy ( thompsons , BAR ) or slow ( greaseguns) for controlability. After a lot of experiance and practice , I found that Reisings and M2s are controlable , it just takes know-how.
As far as " hip-shooting " , I've never been very good at that , EXCEPT for the greaseguns. They point very well , and it is not that hard to hit a soda can at 25 yds from the hip with 3 rd bursts. I can ( and often have ) taught people to do quite well with this in an afternoon.
Chris