Printable View
I have a Kokura Type 38 carbine #129xx with no series symbol in front of the serial number.
It is in decent condition. I purchased it from one of the large importers several years back as a parts gun for $10.00. The Mum is ground. It was missing the bolt and upper handguard. I have since replaced these parts. The bore is dark but has strong rifling.
I was considering rechambering it to 6.5x55 Swede since I already have dies and components for that caliber.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks
6.5 Japanese is very pleasant to shoot in my carbine, I'm not sure 6.5 x 55 Swede would be as pleasant (muzzle blast and recoil).Quote:
Originally Posted by sigman2
6.5 Japanese dies are cheap http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=335612
So is brass Graf & Sons - PRVI BRASS 6.5x50 JAP UNPRIMED 100/BAG
I would leave it as is and start handloading 6.5 Japanese. All the 6.5 Japanese ammo I have I made myself. :)
Stick w/ the original caliber!
If you've just the one rifle, a simple Lee loader kit or your favorite brand of neck sizing dies will work great. Besides, the bullets your Swede prefers may not be happy in the Japanese rifle. Additionally, you would be morally bound to mark the new caliber on the outside of the rifle so that whoever gets it next will know NOT to shoot 6.5 Japanese in it!
"Morally bound" Holy regulations!!
Well if that's how it is in the USA, that's putting a trust in sellers that is all too often not justified.
I know folks in the USA treasure their freedom, even though it sometimes seems to verge on anarchy for people in the land of DIN. However, rechambering a rifle and not marking it appropriately is not freedom but a downright dangerous falsification.
Here in Mauserland, where we notoriously have rules for everything, a gun that is rechambered must by law be reproofed, and the new chambering must be stamped on the barrel so that it is visible. Failure to do so is not just immoral, it is illegal!
Patrick
Note I didn't say LEGALLY BOUND! Seeing as how I recently fell victim to a calber change w/ o visible evidence I was reminded of the USER BEWARE responsibility! (The 6.5 Carcano/Mannlicher fun)
ETA: I COULD blame the Canadians since Cooey did the conversion, but I'm still dumb sometimes.:madsmile:
As a warning to type 38 owners, quite a few were bubba'ed into sort of 257 Roberts and sort of 25-06 too! The '99's are often butchered into sort of 30-06. None of which shoot worth a ****!
Which reminds me that there is/was a 6.5 that someone had run a 30-06 reamer into! A yokel drags it into a local gunshop and complains about the recoil and hard extraction. When asked what ammo he had been shooting, he drags out a box of '06. The gunshop owner doesn't believe that the fellow could possibly FIRE, much less chamber a round, so he just has to drop a shell in----. Let's just say it shook the dust off the rafters! (This was NOT a shooting range BTW). A friend who was there at least had time to cover his ears, I think, its been a while. Anyways, it didn't hurt anything except some egos, even the rifle suffered no ill effects!
Just curious, could you use the 6.5 X 55 Swede dies to just neck size the 6.5 Jap cases if you're going to shoot it in the same gun?
I have a 6mm Win Navy Lee that instead of buying the expensive 6mm dies I just use .243 dies to neck size, Ray
That will not work, for the very simple reason that the 6.5x55 die is 4mm longer. And the Swedish case neck/mouth diameter is larger than the maximum Arisaka chamber neck diameter. So there would be no resizing effect. (Presumaby the Swedish brass has thicker walls).
The Lee dies are cheap enough - certainly cheaper than rechambering a rifle and reducing its historical value to zero! I had the same idea, but after checking the dimensions and tolerances, I simply bought the dies.
Patrick
Thanks for everyone's thoughts on my question.
Does the type 38 use standard rifling or is it Metford? What is the difference?
I had a friend who was going to turn a barrel down to the carbines dimensions, thread and chamber it. I would have gone with .243 if this was done. However, he has since passed away so that idea is moot.
This would have enabled me to retain the original barrel and chambering.
I'll order dies and brass for the 6.5 Jap. I'll probably end up getting another 38 in rifle length also.
I guess it won't hurt to add another caliber to my reloading... I already load 24 different calibers. LOL
"Arisakas have hammer-forged polygonal or Metford-type rifling, where the lands and grooves are gradual rather than having distinct shoulders. With no sharp corners to burn off the barrel life is longer than with other types of rifling. Many collectors mistake the rounded shoulders of this rifling type as excessive wear of the barrel". (From "The Type 38 Arisaka" by Allan and Macy).Quote:
Originally Posted by sigman2
Heckler & Koch and Glock also use polygonal rifling Polygonal rifling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Smart choice leaving it in its original chambering. When you shoot it you'll see why. :thup:
Ah Mauser land home of the 88 Commission rifle with several different land and groove dimensions. It was ok for the government to make them like that and later sell them into commercial channels without marking. so can you tell me what the land and groove dimensions of my 88 are just from the markings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Yes, at least I can tell you what it OUGHT to be according to the markings. That is, of course, not guarantee that it has not been altered SINCE it was marked!!!
Try me! Post a picture. or describe (pics are usuall better) as many of the markings as you can find. Anf then I will consult my 440-page reference work (I didn't make this stuff up myself).
Patrick
PS: of course, the trouble with the Gew88 Commission Rifle was that it was NOT designed by Mauser! An old quip about a camel being a racehorse designed by a committee comes to mind, although that is unfair to camels).
The Gew88? Don't worry about them, the VAST majority have a .321 diameter bore as originally manufactured. The legendary .318 bullet is only necessary on the Czech barreled rifles out of South America, as a matter of fact, some of those are .316. The problem lies with the Czech replacement barrels used by Ecuador, not with the German barrels. If there is a question about the bore in anyone's 88, check the firing proof on the barrel, if German you are fine with a .321 bullet or a .323 with driving band as in the Geman "S" bullet. If the firing proof on the barrel is the Czech Lion, be sure to slug the barrel and load an appropriate bullet.
It's your gun, do what you want with it. How's that for American freedom?
I re-chambered one years ago for a 6.5x257 Roberts with an Ackley improved case. Wow! After I got bored with that I re-barreled the same gun into a .22-250. I quit shooting my 788 Remington .22-250.
Currently I have a Type 38 re-barreled with a Shilen blank chambered in a standard .257 Roberts.
I think that the next one I would do if using the stock 6.5 barrel would be a
.260 Remington. Simply re-chamber and go. Then you could buy ammo at almost any place that sells ammo.
It would be nice if you marked it so somewhere down the road someone will know what the proper ammo is.:thup:
Be well, my brothers.
Al
p.s. Type 38 6.5mm barrels love 140 grain bullets.
In the case of previously modified rifles, sure! I have a type 38 action with a 220 Swift Winchester model 70 barrel stuck in it. Don't know how or when it was done, but the barrel date is from the 1940's. Bishop stock. Turned down low profile bolt handle (the receiver was cut down some at the bolt cutout for extra clearance, but there's plenty of "safety lug" left).
It had no scope when it was given to me, so I put a Griffin and Howe setup on it to preserve the intact mum! Shoots as well as any other 220 Swift I've run across, and its a "Winchester" to boot.
This specific conversion is one of the few that makes sense, sort of, in a late '40s context.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Most shooters wouldn't have known that the .257 Roberts is made from the 7x57. By running a .257 Roberts reamer with a 6.5 pilot into a Type 38, they recreated the 6.5x57, a fine hunting cartridge.
The 6.5x57 IS nice, but that's NOT what most folk tried to shoot out of them. Most just had a regular old 257 Roberts reamer run in, and that's it.
Never mind that the pilot is too small, they were by and large quicky hack jobs, often left stock appearing on the outside, or crudely "sporterized".
Those that were done well ARE very nice, but are unfortunately quite uncommon. Most are hammered dog ^%$.
Backin the 60's I sporterized a T38 carbine using a Bishop Stock, had a gunsmith install a new low scope bolt handle, drill and tap the receiver and blue it. I put a Weaver 4x steel scope on it and it was or I should say is a nice sporter. The problem with it was the oversize chamber that swelled the base of the cartridge so bad that reloading it was a porblem. I ordered a 6.5x57 chambering reamer and fitted the 6.5x57 cartridge with correct headspace to the rifle. This conversion needs no modification to the reed rails or ramp and will hold 5 cartridges in the magazine. As someone said this is an old European hunting cartridge that is adequate for most anything we have in the south. riceone.
This thread is interesting to me since a few months ago I acquired a type 38 Arisaka sporter that was rechambered to 257Roberts. Bought the rifle over the internet and seller neglected to mention the barrel was still 6.5 Japanese, which I quickly realized soon after receiving the rifle. Nicely done sporter in a Bishop stock from probably the late 50s or early 60s and was fascinated by the 6.5X257R cartridge so I decided to keep it. I reload my own ammo and have 257R, 7mm mauser and 6.5 Swede dies, so making the ammo for it was no problem. You can use either 7mm mauser or 257R brass, since the 257R is nothing more than a 7X57 mauser necked down to 25 cal. I use my 6.5 Swede die to neck size my 257 or 7mm mauser brass.
I've enjoyed shooting the rifle at my local range, but the condition of the bore on the rifle leaves something to be desired and as for accuracy of my rifle, well, I have other surplus rifles with similliar bores that seem to shoot better. At 100 yards, my 6.5X257R arisaka may shoot a 1.5 to 2" group on a good day. I'm still experimenting with various loads/powders and etc. to see if I can improve the rifle's accuracy.
That accuracy's not too bad, considering! So you have a "6.5 Roberts", sort of, I guess.