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I acquired a crate of 1936 R+L Mk VII ball, in chargers, last year. I just opened a couple boxes for a range visit tomorrow. These rounds are all a bit dusty even though sealed in the little 20 round boxes so I have to wipe them off before shootin'.
Anyway, I noticed that, in both boxes, the rounds are not staggered in the recommended manner. _-_-_ They were one in front of the other seemingly establishing a top and bottom for each charger.
Any reason this might be so.
Me old Sgt Major screamed ROBERTSON you "TW*T" it's DUDUD(as in down up down up down) and after rattling about for almost 70 years that's most likely why they are outta synch.I was 15 years old and a Rfn Recruit in the Victoria Rifles of Canada in Montreal when I learned this.Didn't lie my way in either.I was(and still am 6 foot 5) and Abie Zemel the Orderly Room callout WO2(G*d Bless him) saw LIVE POTENTIAL CANNON FODDER standing there at the counter.Handed me the paperwork,I filled it all in and was told to come back that evening.Did so,got the 5 minute medical check from the "quack" (who was one of my Profs at McGill Meds) and was passed FIT.
Ushered in to the CO's inner sanctum and he sped read my docs and screamed "ABIE this kids only FIFTEEN".BUT, the CO was LTC G.Rocke Robertson you see(NO relation that we could figure out but ??)since I was sent by the President of the Quebec Rifle Assn to be mentored by Tommy Richardson I was IN.never looked back either.
Dinner is served so I had best dash here.
Cheers,
JR
I haven't had the chance to go out and fire my Savage No 4 MkI* yet as I'm busy moving house, but when I practice-load the magazine with the chargers filled DUDUD, I seem to get a few that still overlap the wrong way. Why is this??
DUDUD .... I like that!! :)
I have a back of the mind thought that they don't stay that way once they get in the magazine. I don't see how it could feed properly if round #1 was behind #2. Unless, as they enter the mag and the noses come up as the shape of the magazine bunches the noses together and the rims ..... They're not all lying horizontal with 10 in there are they??
:confused:
If they're overlapping you just have to make sure you run the charger in right side up. works fine in most rifles, but some are more finicky than others. My worst looking No4 that I use for CQC fun doesn't care at all how the rounds are arranged in the clips, it always feeds! Nothing else works quite as well though.
Here's a link to an explanation of how your technique controls the way the rounds set into the mag. If you read it carefully and look at the pictures, you will see what to watch out for and be able to practice your loading so you will never suffer a rim-over jam feed malfunction again.
Sorry about having to link out with this- but I lost the article (and everything else) off my computer. I thought it was here somewhere, but couldn't find it.
Scroll down untill my posting about the sixth on the page.
Stripper Clip Loading? - Gunboard's Forums
I was trained to DUDUD too. And then (like most of the others) immediately forgot it. Rounds don´t know about DUDUD and so they don´t mind which way they go in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Son
Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
Exactly my point! In the last parragraph at the link, I said it doesn't matter how the chargers are loaded, as long as your stripping technique is right the magazine will sort them. I still load "DUDUD" anyway because it removes the one last possible cause of a problem, if you aren't concentrating...
That is how they were loaded and then issued. It was up to the user to sort them correctly. Not only that but "Infantry Training, Infantry Platoon Weapons, No4 Rifle and Bayonet suggests that one clean the chargers before use as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by lngstrt
I've always just put the rounds in any old way in the chargers, and they always seem to feed fine in my jungle carbine. Never understood the DUDUD, its sort of counter intuitive, if you know what i mean.
hi all
my no4 mk1 ROF has an A suffix on the mag and the rifle serial # and it will not load correctly if you use the _-_-_ method or even -_-_-... the only way it loads without a rim jamb is to load ///// with each rim in front of the lower one...
now before you say I am doing it wrong I have loaded others with the up/down without a problem
strange things can happen in rifles built in war times.:madsmile:
regards Robyn
Robyn, I don't doubt that your experience is unique, however its probably not so much the rifle itself as the magazine. To test, just round up another known to be good No. 4 mag and try it in this rifle. (Not a "for sure" test, but it usually works.) Generally, the feed lips on the mag just need a bit of tweaking to get things running smoothly. OR you just live w/ it. Its not like your gonna be sent to the front lines w/ this rifle.;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn
Sorry, mate... you may be doing it wrong.
If it feeds ok when the rims are sitting in front of the one below, then I don't think it's likely to be a feed lip problem. Are you trying it with the bolt in? If it's not there the charger has nothing to hold it upright. Also ensure the charger is right down.
There are slight differences in some of the chargers that may make it less easy to strip them correctly, though. On the sides of the charger you will see two little "nibs". These are what locate into the small slots in the charger bridge. Some chargers have a tiny dot type nib, while others have a much larger teardrop shape nib. The larger nib locks in more firmly, where the smaller dot type are left with a little movement allowing them to tilt forward.
Try stripping your chargers while holding a little backward pressure on them. Remember to get your thumb right back. Look at the link I mentioned before, experiment and practice a few methods.
Member "Alan de Enfield" posted an excellent pic in another thread showing the correct stagger sequence in a stripper clip.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rgerClip-1.jpg
Hope that helps .. ;)
Regards,
Badger
Putting new chargers in with the cases and polishing them for a few hour makes pushing the rounds into the magazine a LOT smoother.
I know that when things don't work properly it's vexing, but sometimes it just takes practice, practice, practice. I too have had various things happen, but remember this isn't brain surgery. Military rifles and their ammo can't be that finniky as to require a magic touch when you're shaking and sh*tting razor blades under fire. In the army we taught perfect practice makes perfect. Get some drill rounds and give'er! It will all work out.
Thankyou to Son for your picture demonstration on LE loading. I still haven't fired my No4 Mk1* yet, but when practising I'm finding the 1st charger goes in perfect, then the first 4 on the second go fine but for some reason the last round to go in (no. 10) seems to keep rimming-over. I've got 3 charger clips at present, and no. 10 does it in all of them despite my best efforts to keep my thumb against the charger etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLesky
If you are anything like me with short phat phingers, getting the last round deep enough to engage in the feed lips can be a hassle. If you try it slowly and watch closely, you might be turning your thumb or rolling it forward a touch. This will tilt the front of the round down and then as you push it home the rim is lifted, letting it side back over the rim below.
One trick I found when firing from the prone position- you can leave the rifle on the shoulder, cradled on the left palm under the foreend, left arm wound into the sling. Sit the charger in and roll your hand back putting the thumb under the foreend and stripping the rounds off the charger with two fingers (which are longer than thumbs and reach all the way in!)
Bottom line, either get or make some drill rounds and practice on the loungeroom floor after dinner. See what works for you. :thup:
Maybe ignorance is bliss. (me being the ignorant one)
I mean, I currently have 2xNo4Mk1*s, 1xNo4Mk2, 1xNo3 (P14) and 1xNo5Mk1 not mention the fact that I have owned and sold or traded at least 5 times that many more, and I have never paid any attention to how the cartridges were in the Chargers (stripper clips here in Louisiana) and never had any kind of issue what so ever. Never. Ever. Hmmmmmmmm????
Thanks guys. Now I will have issues every time I don't check them :banghead:. Dang it!
Well, if you were in a hurry pulling fresh ammo out of bandoliers on a "busy" day, you probably wouldn't check the chargers either. I've seen them packed all sorts of ways, fresh out of the tin.
If you're especially fortunate they'll all have five rounds in 'em! (Always seem to be a few loose rounds lost in the pockets.)
Fellows, sorry for popping in here so late. This isn't 'thread necrophilia' or anything, believe me; I was looking for something and the Search function suggested coming here.
Several years ago, a friend took a 1910 Ross to the 'Battle of the Bulge' winter shoot at CFB Shilo. After the first relay, he was ready to throw the Ross away, but the rules are that if you took it to the firing line once and it still was firing, you couldn't discard it. So, between relays, he asked me to look at his rifle being that I had been elected the local Ross Guru or something, so I did.
I noticed immediately that his chargers are were loaded rim-over-rim.... and his complaint was that "that $#&&%* POS (**&^$ ROSS just WOULD NOT FEED!". I loaded a charger DUDUD and handed it to him and asked him to show me just HOW it wasn't feeding, so he stripped them in and shucked them through the action perfectly. So I did it again and, again, it worked perfectly. His comment was, "This thing feeds slicker'n greased monkey-s**t! What did you do?"
We reloaded all his chargers and no more problems: his team came in First on the B side for an overall Second in the match. But that was in a match. In a war there ARE no second-place prizes.
But the point is simple: the Lee-Enfield rifle vastly prefers its chargers loaded DUDUD, but the Ross DEMANDS it. The single-column Ross magazine holds the rounds very securely and tightly; there is no 'wiggle room'. I think this could have been the source of some of the WWI jamming with the Ross.
Well, now I'll have to break out the Ross and some chargers!
Interesting.