Serial Number question for Savage No4

Hi Guys,

I have a Savage No4 MkI* with the serial number 53C2272 which has been subsiquently issued to the New Zealand army and a new serial number 46855 along with the NZ defence arrow applied under the original serial number.

The rifle is a complete with matching numbers etc etc in what I beleive to be exceptional condition, two groove barrel savage made No2 spike bayonet etc.

It is part of the lend lease program with the markings property of USA, which I'm assuming would make it a pre 1942 issue??

It has a strange leather sling on it, it came with the rifle and I'm sure its after market but its exceptionally well made and sewn straight to the sling rings, very curious.

I picked this rifle up here in Australia around 15 years ago for $90 (AUS) I was rather happy with that price, considering the bayonet at the time was selling for $20 each, I got the rifle for $70.

I'd love to find out a bit more about its service history.

I thought I read here a week or so a go, a post that linked to a fact sheet of sorts that listed serial number batches of rifles with maker details and years of manufacture etc etc. but I'm unable to find it now.

If anybody has any info I'd love to hear it.

thanks regards Rob.

Hi Guys,

these are pictures that were supposed to show in the last post, should pay more attension before hitting post.

regards Rob.

Although not a listing of Savage or Long Branch serial numbers, I thought I'd add this list to this thread, for others who might be researching Enefield serial number ranges in general.

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ers_Page_1.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ers_Page_2.jpg

Make sure you use the multi-pointed EXPAND icon (bottom right corner of enlarged pic), to make the pic more readable on your screen if it doesn't expand to full size.

Regards,
Badger

The entire production run of Savage made rifles had US Property markings, not just pre-1942 made rifles. Actually, if it were a 1942 made gun, it would be marked 1942. 1943 onward, they stoped marking the year of production.

Yours was almost certainly made in 1943.

The rifle most likely left Savage with a Mk.II sight. Is the Mk.I sight on your rifle square S marked?

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies,

Tiriaq the sight is not marked with the square S it has a B on the face of the sight just to the left of the elevation wheel, and just below the B is what looks like an arrow of some sort facing up, which is inside a diamond shape. its a bit faint so cant be 100% sure of the arrow shape.

there is also a B stamped into the top of the elevation wheel. I never really gave the sight much thought, as the intenisty and homeganaity of the blueing across the entire rifle is spot on, the other thing is the various pins and screw heads etc do not display much if any signs of ever being undone, so I never thougt of the sight being other than what the rifle came out with.

so it would appear I'm now in the market for a S stamped Mk 2 sight for this rifle.

I checked over the rest of the various parts and all have the S stamp and where a serial number is displayed it matches the original 53C number on the side of the rifle; and as with the sight none of the screws or pins etc show any sig of being tampered with. there is barely a ding or mark on the stock and all is tight.

another question if I may, I said in the post above that the rifle was IMHO very cheap when I bought it. What would this rifle be worth on todays market?

anyway thanks again for the info, very much appreciated.

regards Rob.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OFF_Winters

Tiriaq the sight is not marked with the square S it has a B on the face of the sight just to the left of the elevation wheel, and just below the B is what looks like an arrow of some sort facing up, which is inside a diamond shape. its a bit faint so cant be 100% sure of the arrow shape. ............. there is also a B stamped into the top of the elevation wheel. .

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Rob...

I don't think it's a B but rather an L stamped over a B which is the marking for Long Branch (Canada). It's often mistaken for just a B, but look real close.

Does the B look like this?

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG
(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Here's an example of a Savage rear sight (Marked with S in a square box, which is commonly found on Long Branch No.4 Mk1(T) sniper rifles.

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG (Click PIC to Enlarge) http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG (Click PIC to Enlarge) http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG

Finally, if you want to compare your Savage Enfield against an "all correct" as originally issued one, go to the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here) and view the 82 picture photo gallery montage for the 1943 Savage No.4 Mk1* Enfield Rifle (click here).

Regards,
Badger

In this country, your rifle would probably sell in the $400 range.

FWIW, if it is just a "B" and not an L superimposed on a B, then it's a 1941 or early 194 vintage BSA Co. Mk1 sight made in England.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claven2

FWIW, if it is just a "B" and not an L superimposed on a B, then it's a 1941 or early 194 vintage BSA Co. Mk1 sight made in England.

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Long Branch MkI rear sights are coded "C.A.I." or "C.I.A." on the top of the elevation "wheel".

As Claven says the "B" was the early BSA coding before the M47 codes were adopted.

The diamond is another clue that it was an early Brit sight.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the info, the sight after a closer look is definately B marked with an arrow in a diamond shape. the arrow sort of looks like the triple rifle logo of BSA. (see pictures)

Is it possible that the NZ army retro fitted the Mk1 sight? and if this was the case and this rifle was issued in this format would it be right to now re-fit a No2 sight?

the rest of the rifle compares very well to the one in the knowledge library write up. it has all the appropriate S stamps and other letters etc on the wood work. The magazine however is a little differant, it still has the S stamps but no seam along the underside of the magazine.

regards Rob.

That's a BSA sight, and anything's possible as to who fitted it. ;)

Mk.I sights were often retrofitted to replace Mk.II sights (although not in Cdn. service, where C Mk.3 sights were standard). Could certainly have been done while the rifle was in service, or could have been done after the rifle was sold off, by someone who wanted an adjustable sight. By all means, pick up a square S Mk.II sight, but don't lose sleep over it.