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I have seen this conversation on boards before but read it with just a passing in tersest until now.
Looking into a M14 /M1A and I remember some issues with some of the commercial receivers being out of spec and warped
So what is the general consensus as to who made the best receivers. and which should be avoided and why?
What is the going $$$ rate for a good M1A? Any leads?
Thanks Ike
Check this recent thread out, gen Ike, it may answer some of your questions:Quote:
Originally Posted by general Ike
M14 Receiver? - Military Surplus Collectors Forums
HTH
Thanks Charlie for the link. I tried a search but came up with too many options. Good thread but a little nonspecific or it doe not come to a conclusion.
I thought there where some receivers if I am not mistaken, Polytech, that had safety issues due to out of spec receivers, but do not remember the details.
So are there any brands to stay away from??
Any suggestions or leads? Not looking for a match piece just as close to GI as I can get.
Thanks
I've seen this question posed many times on many forums and it always winds up in a big argument and inconclusive! But here goes . . .
If time and money are no object by all means buy the forged LRB or the Smith Enterprise Inc. (SEI) receiver milled from solid bar stock. If you want a forged receiver on a budget get a Chinese receiver but just be aware you're going to have to spend some pretty good coin to bring it up to snuff (still cheaper than the others mentioned) but it will still say "Made in China" on it if you can abide by that. Springfield Armory Inc. (SAI) makes a great investment cast receiver that's guaranteed for life and while the LRB/SEI camp will argue that they're not as good as forged there are many that will point out that the owner will wear out long before the receiver. The one thing to look for in any M14 clone is that they have, at a minimum, USGI parts. Sadlak, Fulton Armory, Smith Enterprises and others manufacture some parts that are superior to USGI but pricey.
Bear in mind that one can often buy an M14 clone cheaper than you can have one built, the deals are out there if you're patient. This website can be immensely helpful if you want to educate yourself on the M14 and various aftermarket M14 clones: M14 Rifle History and Development
Good luck! :wave:
Charlie Thanks again:super:
The info and especially the link is exactly what I am looking for. The link has the exact description I wanted and will be really helpful.
I know this is a picky/argumentative subject. I usually read thru these post but my limited brain capacity did not really absorb it since I was not looking to buy at the time.
Definitely looking for a assembled older M14 with as many GI parts as possible since I have no desire or expertise to build one up.
Thanks again and let me know if you see a good deal!!!Ike
Hi General Ike,Quote:
Originally Posted by general Ike
For what it's worth I have several M1A's with Armscorp receivers. One I have been shooting for 5 years with no problems. In todays economy and with som patience you may pick one up for less than $1500.00.
Bill
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...624XX005-1.jpg
1990 M1a purchased a couple of years ago. All TRW parts except a SAK barrel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d321266c-1.jpg
2007 LRB barrelled receiver from Lou. I put all H&R parts and completed the rifle.
The LRB cost twice what the SA cost me and does not shoot any better. Cosmetically there were equal. Function is equal. Lou is a great guy, but can only warrant his rifles for a year. SA's warranty is for a lifetime. I would get and earlier SA tho. More USGI parts. Current ones have none. Most folks do not have the time or money to wear out a cast receiver much less a forged one.
Whatever you do, I don't think you regret your decision.
I was at Ft. benning years back. The question of wearing out a receiver came up. They said you could indeed stretch a cast receiver. They go into the scap pile then. Forged receivers would stretch but not nearly like a cast piece.
Thanks all, great info. Now to find an older build!!!
What kind of $$ range am I looking at, older reciever mostly US parts?
Anybody have a lead?
Thanks again Ike
Depends where you live. $$$$$ Personally I would not pay anymore than what a current new rifle goes for.
Try Whittaker Guns
They have a good selection and fair prices. They may have a few used ones. Be specific. Tell them what your looking for.
Good luck, and good hunting
Alright all is this any good? Here is what I found a Pre ban SA reciever with TRW bolt; HR Barrel Trigger Group; SA Op-Rod asking $1500.00. Looks decent , very little use. Ok deal great deal or a steal? Best of all its local so easy to "see and touch".
What else should I look for and ask? Thanks
great deal >> steal, IMO.
Ditto what snapperm1c said . . . especially if its a receiver that has "7.62-mm M1A" stamped on it. :thup:
If you're a purist, make sure there are no "Genesco, Il" stamps or any other non-USGI markings on the barrel or receiver. These won't affect the weapon's functionality but it's nicer not to have them IMO
Let us know. Sounds like a good one.
I don't recall exactly when SA dropped the 7.62 heel markings. My SA has a 1990 build date and it has the 7.62.
Glg20, I believe SAI dropped the 7.62-mm designation around 063000. On the low end, according to Lee Emerson the receivers have thickest heels beginning with serial # 030061 so if one could be found between those serial numbers it would be a real good one. The older SAI receivers are generally considered to be closer to USGI specs than newer ones.is your receiver below 063000?Quote:
Originally Posted by glg20
Hello all and thanks again. What is the importance/significances in the marking "7.62-mm M1A" is it a change in the quality/spec compliance of the receiver or does it have some other significance? Thanks
None of the above, general Ike. The "7.62-mm M1A" marking closely mimics the "7.62-mm M14" markings on an actual USGI M14 receiver. This might have appeal to an M14 aficianado but has no effect on the quality. It is true that the rear of the heels are progressively thinner in receivers below 030061 but those older ones, especially those with the "Devine" markings are very collectible in their own right. All carry the lifetime warrantee, regardless of when made.Quote:
Originally Posted by general Ike
All this info is available in the Lee Emerson's (Different)sticky at the top of this forum. HTH
Charlie, again greatly appreciate all your help. I looked thru the stickys but thought that sticky was something I had already downloaded , but it is not, some great historical info. I looked thru it a few times and I cannot find the reference to the receiver markings, hate to ask but what page is the info on? Thanks Ike
I'm running off my BlackBerry right now so I can't answer your question, general Ike. Lee's info on the M14 above also includes data on many of the commercial M14 receivers It is also in his hardcover books, I have the 2nd division. When I can get hooked up to my laptop I'll get back to you on this. HTH
You are correct. My SN 624XXQuote:
Originally Posted by Maniac
Lee's work is excellent. I have read his works several times over the last few years. I actually contributed a tiny bit to the book as I knew someone that had bought one of the DOE M14 rifles. As I have gotten older it is hard to recall anything. Remember its the mileage not the years for a lot of folks!
Here's a post by Lee Emerson in response to the question "Differences in overall quality SA M1A of 1988 and M1A 2008? It sums up some of the info in his "M14 Rifle History and Development (by Lee Emerson)" that can be found on a sticky at the top of this forum as well as his website. Lee has personally answered questions for me and like glg20 said, he is an excellent person and probably the #1 fan of the M14. Here you go:Quote:
Originally Posted by general Ike
Post subject: Re: Differences in oveall quality SA M1A of 1988 and M1A 2008?
Posted: 20 Apr 2008 09:15
Offline
Lee Emerson Moderator
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 20:00
Posts: 5564
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
The M1A receiver has never been an exact duplicate of the M14 receiver drawing. Aside from the lack of select fire features, Melvin Smith made some changes from the get go since it was going to be investment cast. There's been a number of subtle changes in the M1A receiver design throughout the years, and I love them all, but my favorite M1A receivers range from serial number range from serial number 020001 to 063000.
From the draft of the Third Edition of M14 Rifle History and Development:
"Once this equipment was set up in his shop, Melvin Smith designed improvements into the civilian version of the M14 receiver. These changes included increasing the thickness of the receiver bridge, changing the operating rod rail to better support the operating rod and prevent automatic fire, removal of small amounts of material for better clearance, and relocating the operating rod dismount notch. After some persuading by his friend, Edward M. "Ned" Hogan, Mr. Smith kept the receiver left side geometry the same as the USGI M14 even though it would add to the manufacturing cost."
and
"In January 1972, Valley Ordnance Co. performed sixty-three machining steps for each M1A receiver. Earlier receivers machined by Valley Ordnance Co. were given a lot of hand grinding and polishing by Melvin Smith. Specifically, these areas were: 1) the exterior heel corners on the sides 2) the flat surface aft of the operating rod channel 3) the top surface of the left receiver wall from the cartridge clip guide to the barrel ring 4) the vertical surface on the right side behind the cartridge clip guide all the way back including the windage knob ear 5) the left side of the barrel ring forward of the horizontal scope mount groove 6) the magazine well aft of the feed lips and 7) the top surface of the barrel ring after all machining operations that located off the barrel ring had been done. This cosmetic detailing is evident as late as M1A serial number 062857 but was no longer being done by serial number 064922. Note that the hand polishing served to enhance the aesthetic appearance but did not add to the functional ability of the M1A receiver. As Melvin Smith moved to semi-retirement the receiver surfaces noted above were finished by machine. For example, the magazine well on M1A receivers was cut and broached by machine tool after Mr. Smith purchased Hillside Manufacturing."
and
"Beginning in January 1973, the rear end of the M1A receiver bolt right lug slot, located under the rear sight base cover, was extended 0.080 " to the rear to prevent possible damage to the bolt roller. In March 1973, Melvin Smith stated that he would adjust his machine tools to remove less steel from the M1A receiver for all future production in order to strengthen the rear end of the receiver. The author examined M1A receiver serial numbers 000049, 002884, 030061, 042201, 052122, 057969 and 141555 to verify this. M1A receiver serial number 000049 has a maximum thickness of ¼ " at the heel rear wall centerline. M1A receiver 002884 has 5/16 " thickness at the same location. Receiver serial numbers 030061 and higher all have a full 3/8 " thickness at the receiver heel rear wall centerline. Additionally, there is noticeably more uncut steel in the bolt raceways aft of the cartridge clip guide in the receiver serial numbers 002884 and up."
and
"The M1A receiver design was further changed prior to serial number 010048 to include a small hemisphere on the outboard side of the rear sight pocket right ear for use of a ball bearing to engage a detent on a newly designed match windage knob. This windage knob allowed ½ minute of angle sight adjustments by allowing eight “clicks” per revolution of the knob. Original USGI NM sights used a more delicate fine thread on the windage knob and rear sight base to effect ½ minute windage adjustments with four “clicks” per revolution.
Hope this helps answer your questions, good luck with your search. did you find anything more about the local M1A you mentioned? :D
Charlie and all others, thanks for all your time and effort in helping me thru. I see the mods to the receiver that you had described earlier. What a wealth of info, and there right on the net!!!
The receiver is marked 7.62-mm M14 and dates to about 1990 so it is within the period you all described. Have not gotten any other info yet, but it loooks decent. I will follow up with details as the come in.
Thanks Ike
Glad to help general Ike but all I'm doing is pointing you in Lee's direction. He's the Man when it comes to the M14 platform and has dedicated a lot of time getting the info out. It appears that you might want to jump the M1A you're looking at for $1500. Given it's vintage, It's likely that it is full of USGI parts and if so, a steal at that price. Even with all SAI parts you wouldn't be getting hurt because it's a great receiver, JMHO
An M1A is a cast receivered clone of an M14. How the receiver is marked doesn't matter. When the M1A first came to Canada, in the late 70's/early 80s,(worked in the shop that was the Canadian distributor) 7.62NATO and .306 Win were the same thing. The Internet changed that. Not SA Inc.
They run $1500 and up now.
Looks like the $$ is going up on this auction. When does the price go from a "steal" at $1500.00 to a bargain, to just OK, to pass too expensive?
Thanks again
Well done deal, at least I think. Got it for $1550. Think it worked out well. It appears to be new, the seller states it was new when he got it , had to clean out the cosmo and shot 100 rounds before selling it to me.
Here are the auctions photos and will post more when it arrives if anyone desires them.
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I want to thank everyone for the help bringing me up to speed on these!!. Ike
I checked out the date of my SA M1A. It was made in 1987. Sold as a receiver only. I built it into an M14 E2 configuration. All other parts are GI including an ARTII, rate reducer and M2 bipod. Did not cost much then to build. Could not do it now. Gary
Stop teasing us, arado, and post a few pix of your baby - pleeeease?
I have a Springfield Armory NM M1A, sn 4xxx, that I bought in 1976 for less than $600. It has performed well for me and is capable of ~1 moa with handloads. For sentimental reasons, I prefer it to my Stoner SR-25. I guess I just like the walnut stock better and it's less finicky about ammo.
Well picked up the M!A yesterday. Just as described. I do not think it has had over 100 rounds shot thru it. Basically it looks like it just came out of the box.
Wood is a liitle dry, some BLO will resolve that and there is some figure to it. It looks like walnut but some of the figuring pattern reminds me of birch, any thoughts? Here are some new pics.
Thanks again to everyone, especially Charlie for all the help!!! Ike
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