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I have some bullets that I bought from Bonaduce/polygunbag.com that are pulled from 7.62x54R rounds. They're 180 grain, .310 diameter. Their site says they can also be used in .303 British, is this true and safe to do? http://www.polygunbag.com/7.62X54R18...argerView.html
Safe, yes (w/in reason). Accurate, maybe, but wouldn't count on it! (Kinda undersized) Might have to reduce your expander ball diameter or just use a .30 cal expander depending on the as sized neck ID.
Check the daimeter of your bullets again, most (as in almost 100%) of 54R bullets are .3105".
A few years back, I did a good deal of experimentation on this with the thought of writing it up for Prec. Shooting or something along these lines. The problem now is that you can't buy 440 rounds of 54R anymore for 60 bucks and the economics aren't nearly as good.
I also used the the 54R Commie POWDER with no problems although I was careful to mike the case heads, used a Chrony, etc. I cannot recommend this for safety reason, but it worked fine for me. I still have all my data and targets and may still get around to writing it all up. Amazingly consistent stuff, even across Warsaw Pact manufacturers.
I still have a BIG bag of primed 54R Russian, Yugo, etc. brass that I guess someone might want. I haven't owned a 54R in 20 years!
The bullets are a touch undersize, but will run OK. Reduce the powder charge or risk a blowup. The Bulgarian/Russian loadings are stiff and are too much for the Enfield. I have heard of using the 7.62x39 as is, but the 7.62x54R is a danger.
Well, yeah. I wasn't going to try and duplicate the 7.62x54R loads in .303 cases, just wondering if I can use pulled 7.62x54R bullets, since I have a bag of those already. I'd look for proper loading data for that weight bullets in the .303 cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
use the bullets!, NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.
Slug your barrel. Mine came out at .312". The .310" will not be unsafe, but may "keyhole" on you. I found that the Hornady round-nose bullets worked best. Also, I found that boat-tails didn't work well at all. At any rate, load a few and try them. If they work, great!
If your Enfield has been fired with UK ammo, boattails will not run well. Cordite powder is the culprit and a worn throat is the consequence.
Well, since I use .303 bullets to load my 7.62X54R, I see no problems. Except my .303 bullets are .311".
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA Hugh Uno
Yep! I loaded up with X54 when it was 39 bucks a case just to have a pile extra to pull down and use the slugs for my LEs. The good stuff I use in my MNs, the rest is pull down. I trash the powder, to many unknowns reusing that.
The ONLY bullet I use for reloading .303 is a 147 grain 7.62 x 54R FMJBT. Widener's was selling them cheap in bulk a few years ago and I have many thousands of bullets waiting to be loaded.
I think they were made by Prvi Partizan.
I've heard scare stories about boat tails (the gas escapes around them blah blah blah) but they have served me well. As Calif Steve notes above, I wouldn't use it in worn barrels that have seen lots of old cordite ammo. It's safe but the bullet kinda rattles on its way down the worn barrel :)
Very tight groups with 45.0 grains of Reloader 15. It's a pretty hot load (around 2700 fps out of a P17 with an excellent barrel that's longer than an Enfield barrel producing a bit higher velocity because of the extra langth) but gets a standard deviation of just a hair over 10 fps and that's not shabby. Lighter or heavier loads had much higher deviation and wider groups.
I haven't tried a heavier bullet but I'd have no worry about the size. You may have to do as I did and try lots of recipes with a chronograph.
My personal caution is that I only use them in Enfields having really good barrels (the ones I wouldn't want to crud up with Milsurp, I have other more beat up rifles for that stuff).
Anyway, the simple answer is yes, 54R works well in .303 barrels that are in very good shape.
HT
I shoot Hornady .3105 fmjbt bullets in my #4 MK1. I get groups like this at 100 yards.
Ralph
"A bad day hunting or fishing is always better than a good day at work."
Pat McDonald sells pulled Russian bullets. I use them in my Krag that has a .310" groove diameter barrel. $89.99/1000 http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm
Not certain, but I think the bullets Weidner's has been selling are pulled Bulgarian 7.62x54R. They are not newly made Privi bullets. I, too, have a pile and they run very well in the right rifle.
Hmmm..... 7.62x54R is expensive enough here in Canada that I'll save the ammo as is for my SVTs and Mosins, but pulling one or two hundred 7.62x39 bullets and powder sounds like an inexpensive way to get practice with the two Enfields and Bubba Ross that I haven't committed to shooting cast.
I was also thinking of buying the 123gr 7.62 Hornady V-Max to switch with the jacketed bullets for my SKS and CZ 858. Perhaps I'll use the pulled bullets in my Enfields if someone can suggest a suitable powder and charge for the .303 British.
Cheers,
Frank
OK, I finally got around to trying this. These were 147gr. FMJBT .311 bullets, not the 180gr. heavy ball that I thought they were. I loaded up 50 with 40 grains of IMR 4064. Closest load in my book was for 150gr. bullets, showing 39gr. of IMR 4064.
What sez y'all? Should this be an OK load? 147gr. bullets aren't too light for a No.5 carbine, are they?
One grain over the stated max w/ an untried bullet w/ possible bearing length, jacket hardness, diamater, powder lot number, case internal volume differences?
Well....., I wouldn't!
Start low- work up! This ain't a drag race.
rondog
I have a box of a 1000 147 grain 7.62X54R bullets from Wideners, the weight and diameter varies (they ain't Sierras) and they are "STEEL CORE". I crossed checked all my reloading manuals and the max load varied from 41.5 to 44.7 grains of 4064 as being max loads.
I'm shooting them with 40 grains of Varget with no problem BUT remember each rifle is different so play it safe. Reload like you are playing Black Jack and "Stay light and beat the dealer". Or start at the lowest load in the book and work up and not go "Bust" and lose to the pressure dealer.
Below is some printed info for you, please note the 150 grain bullet is .312 and ALL pressures listed are at approximately 43,000 CUP or 46,000 PSI. The .303 British is rated at 45,000 CUP or 49,000 PSI as maximum chamber pressure.
NOTE: Factory loaded .303 ammo is kept at or below 43,000 CUP due to all the older .303 still being shot today. The ammunition manufactures and the reloading info below is "playing it safe" and keep pressures well below maximum of 45,000 CUP or 49,000 PSI.
Rule #1 in asking reload info online, "TRUST NO ONE" and double and tripple check the information and then cross check check it again.
The link below is a VERY good source for reloading info.
Basic Manual Download
No, the 39gr. that I mentioned was the STARTING weight recommended for 150gr. bullets, not the max. I figured with a lighter bullet, going one gr. over the minimum for 150gr. bullets would be OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
And Mr. Horton - thank you very much!
And help me out here....how do most of you "start low and work your way up"? It's an hour drive to my range, one-way, so testing is a pain. Do you guys make like 5 rounds at a minimum load, increase the load and make 5 more, increase and make 5 more, etc., then keep them all separate and see how each load performs?
I don't have a chrono, or know anybody with one. And how in the world does an average Joe measure chamber pressures?
rondog
Get a plastic 50 round cartridge case and load up 50 rounds, each five rounds increase the load half a grain. After each 5 shot group label each target with the load info.
Go home and study your targets and then reload the 50 cases with the most promising powder loads and retest.
Remember, when the .303 British was in use we didn't have the "slower" burning powders we have today. You have a 25 inch barrel, take advantage of the long barrel and slower burning powders which equals lower pressures and higher velocities.
Again please take notice the load data I posted keeps the chamber pressures at or below 43,000 CUP. If you load higher pressures than 43,000 CUP you will be loading the American cases to a higher pressure than what the factory loads them to. (And the cases will not last as long) ;)
Use the rubber o-ring method of fire forming your .303 cases and then neck size only.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP5096-1.jpg
I save some time and money by working up medium-size military rifle loads in 1/2-grain increments (less for small cartridges) and loading just 3 cartridges at each step. A load that appears safe and groups well for three shots is worth loading up 10 for the next trip. If it performs well for 10 shots, it's a good candidate for more testing, minor tweaking, and possible adoption. One thing you don't want is to use up your entire supply of a powder on load development and discover you can't find more from the same production lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
Pressure measuring equipment is generally unavailable to us "average Joes". Experience with moderate loads, combined with a low-cost chronograph, lets us learn to make reasonable estimates - or at least recognize when we're pushing the envelope too hard.
Chronographs that are surprisingly accurate can be had for less than US$200, if you can found up a tripod on which to place the working bits.
I've used this one, very accurate!(as cross referenced to other units) Not enough buttons, though- I can't remember the functions w/o keeping the instuction manual at hand.
Link below:
Shooting Chrony Beta Master Chronograph - MidwayUSA
Hi all,
posted this here as a similar question,
my long lee does not like the normal 311 diameter 303 bullets/heads
someone told me to try 314 diameter, but for love nor money can i find anything here in the UK, are there any similar sized stuff anyone can reccommend?.
i dont wish to go down the cast route
regards
douglas
Good morning all. Was bummed out to see that Poly Gun Bags was sold out of the 7.62 bullets that rondog noted in his original post. I'm looking around for a bullet that will load in my Savage No 4 Mk 1, Arisaka 7.7 mm and my 91/30. Appears from replies above that the 7.62 x54 bullet sold by Poly GB's will work - if they ever get more in.
Since I'm 63 1/2 and have quite a bit of surplus 7.62x54 on hand, I may never have to reload for my 91/30, but obviously will for the Arisaka and eventually for my No 4 Mk 1. I do have some Prvi Partisan .303 reloadable on hand, and dies for all three calibers.
Midway sells the Hornady ".303 cal and 7.7 mm Japanese (.3105 dia) 174 Gr FMJ Boat Tail." On the Product Review link one gent noted that he got very good results using this bullet with all three calibers above.
Two questions:
1. Does Poly Gun Bags routinely carry the 7.62 x54 bullets that rondog linked to? Other sources?
2. Anyone have experience with the Hornaday bullet noted above?
All three of my rifles above are in superb condition with pristine bores. Have fired the 91/30 and No 4 Mk 1. Front sight on the No 4 needs adjusting though.
Thanks gents.
I can add another "problem" rifle to that list: the 1891 Argentines have a very long throat (see the drawing on P. 55 of Olson, Mauser Bolt Rifles, 3rd Edition). The only off-the-shelf projectile that produces usable groups in my 1891 Engineer's Carbine is the Hornady #3130 174gn round nose. Quite apart from the size, the long cylindrical portion provides better guidance than the fashionable boat-tails. Likewise, the flatbase 174gn British bullets perform better than the boat-tails in my Enfields.
Ok, so the boat-tails have a slightly better BC. Higher down-range velocity, but NOT necessarily accuracy. So how often do you shoot at longer ranges than 1000 yards? I can hit the black (mostly) at 1000 yds with a soft lead bullet out of my 45-70. And others can even slot the shots into the inner and the bull with their BPCRs. What all these shooters have, however, are bullets that are closely matched to their rifles' chambers and transition cones. If the bullet has even a little free flight between leaving the case mouth and hitting the forcing cone, it will tip a tiny bit and be rammed in at a slight angle that will ruin the exterior ballistics when it exits the muzzle, and the best BC in the world can't help you then.
Basically, the bullet must contact the forcing cone before it leaves the case mouth, which is why a bullet with a long cylindrical section can do much better in the typical generously sized military chamber than boat-tails. I recommend you try the Hornady #3130 174gn round nose in all of those problem rifles you listed. Or flat-based 174gn as a second choice.
Patrick