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Gen. Julian Hatcher, who wrote "Hatcher's Notebook," is credited with recommending that a left side gas escape hole be added in the M1903 receiver ring, circa 1936. Can anyone point me to a text reference where he takes or is authoritatively given this credit? I am unable to find it. Please oblige.
Many Thanks!
J.B.
If Wikipedia can be trusted:
Julian Hatcher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And
hatchers notebook
Can you point me to the specific page or chapter in Hatcher's Notebook that the information is found? Please oblige.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hollinger
The wikipedia entry merely repeats previous claims. I'm trying to track down the original source.
Thanks!
J.B.
John, I looked through and did a search of the book and found nothing that even mentions the "Hatcher Hole" or any other noted modification to the receiver where such modifications were accredited to Hatcher. Sorry I could be of more help. I will continue to look.
This is a good assignment!
Julian Hatcher worked in ordnance almost his entire career. He was in no position (rank wise) until 1940 to take credit for anything. He may have recommended "gas relief holes" be drilled in 1903's in 1936, but he was in no position to see that it got accomplished. An order to modify every rifle in the Army by drilling a hole in it surely came from one of the Ordnance Boards, and if Hatcher recommended it, it would be "Hatcher's Hole", along with all the blame if it failed.
If you are trying to locate a document that indicates Hatcher believed he deserved credit for the idea, I wish you luck. A man who graduates with Honors from the Naval Academy and then goes into Army Ordnance doesn't sound self-centered to me. Someone under Hatcher may have had the original idea, but not be in the position to recommend same. If I was some lowly officer that came up with a battleplan for trashing the Afgans, and it worked, it would forever be referred to as "(insert commanding officer's name)'s Battleplan"!
Jim
I have neither intent nor desire to trash Hatcher. I'm just trying to track down the original source where Hatcher takes or is given credit for the left side gas escape hole. As I recall, Campbell gave him credit for the hole. I assumed Campbell got it from Hatcher's Notebook. But, I am unable to find it in Hatcher's Notebook. :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
I now have a formal Test Report from Springfield Armory recommending the left side gas escape hole. And Hatcher's name is nowhere in it.
J.B. :wave:
I know you weren't trying to trash Hatcher, and neither was I. I was just pointing out that in the Army, matters of blame and glory sometimes ignore fact and reality. Marine Lt. Robertson received the DSC for taking Boureches on 6 Jun 1918 and he wasn't even there. Lt. Cates took Bouresches, but he didn't get the medal, and to add insult to injury, Lt. Cates had to stand in formation at attention while Lt. Robertson received his medal.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beard
It may help to find an early reference to a "Hatcher Hole". If the practice began in the thirties, most likely the credit is deserved. I have a lot of gaps in my AR's of that period, but I will look anyway. From my search of military libraries, it appears it was not a term used by the military.
From Hatcher's job description of that period, he obviously worked closely with both armories.
Jim
John, If it is "Hatcher's Notebook, I can't find it. However, in Canfield's "An Illustrated Guide to the '03 Springfield Service Rifle" on page 108, it states - "The Hatcher Hole - In July 1935, the U.S. Army Ordnance Department mandated that an additional gas escape hole be added to the left side of the receiver in order to increase the margin of safety in the event of a cartridge case failure. Around this time, the bolt was also altered by enlarging the gas escape hole. This modification was incorporated in new production rifles shortly afterward and will be found on rifles made from 1936 until the end of production.
The U.S. Marine Corps followed a short time later and added the hole to the '03 receivers in inventory. The extra hole was added to many earlier receivers during arsenal overhaul. Any '03 receiver manufactured prior to 1935with the additional gas escape hole on the left side of the receiver has been modified from its origonal factory configuration. This modification is known among some collectors today as the HATCHER HOLE, in recognition of Gen. Julian S. Hatcher, an early proponent of the feature. " Hope this helps - Regards, Johnny Lawson
John, 2nd attempt to add to my earlier post - In Campbell's "The '03 Era" on page 105. The discussion is about 03A3s'. Paragraph "Eased Tolerances and Cost Reduction Changes" - About half way down - "He desired a left gas escape hole (as had been drilled additionally at Springfield Armory -- at General Hatcher's suggestion --since 1936)". Brophy's "The Springfield 1903 Rifles" - On pages 44,45, 196 and 197 - talks about the gas hole, but does not call it the "Hatcher Hole". Interesting, I thought Brophy's book would be the source. As you no doubt know, Gen. Hatcher held many high level technical posts and commands in the Ordinance Department and received the two highest non combat awards for his service. Sorry I can't find any better references. Campbells book has a lot, maybe one of them is the real deal. Regards, Johnny Lawson
My theory is that the guy's name who came up with the modification is Hugo Black. So, what we have, in reality is "Black holes" !!!:rofl:
(Tongue firmly planted in cheek!!)
Many thanks for your diligence in chasing that information down!Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny l.
I was aware of the Campbell reference, but couldn't put my finger on it. I assumed Campbell got it from Hatcher's Notebook. So, I went through Hatcher's Notebook with a fine-toothed comb, but couldn't find it. I thought perhaps that I had overlooked it. So, I posted here hoping that someone else might have seen it.
I also appreciate you searching Brophy and Canfield. The Canfield account is close, but not entirely accurate.
I have the Springfield Armory test report recommending the hole. And Hatcher's name is nowhere in it.
Thanks again for you diligence!
J.B.