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A quick question, and my pardon if this has already been answered, but when did the No.4 Mk.2 go into production in 1949? More specifically, in what month was the change over from doing FTRs on No.4 Mk.1s to doing FTRs on No.4 Mk.1s and modifying to No.4 Mk1/2 or Mk.1/3 configuration? My new purchase went through FTR in 1949 and was not modified, so I am curious.
From my limited serial number survey the earliest I have is May 1949, and the latest MK1 is February 1949
http://home.earthlink.net/~smithkaia...ists/id15.html
Pardon my ignorance, but how do you know the month of the FTR? I'm not sure how my new toy would fit into your table, but its serial number is AP65**, and the serial numbers all match woohoo! (does not take much to make me happy lol).
I don't believe all No4 Mk1's got the Mk1/2 conversion even w/ late overhaul dates. New rifle mfg. would be different.
New build Mk2's commenced with serial numbers PF---- and UF55A--- Prior to that the Mk1/2 and 1/3 rifles kept their original registered numbers and if they were illegible, then new issue numbers from a central index which I seem to recall, commenced ZZ---- (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that!)
Guestimating the month of manufacture can be pretty accurate on some weaponry. The No4, like the Bren have the year of manufacture so if, say Bren H-1234 is dated and proofed 1943 and Bren H-1734 is dated 1943 but PROOF dated 1944, then H1734 is a good guestimate of December/Jan production. Then using the same formula for the end of the year, divide by 12 (or even 52) and you have a reasonably fair to good to accurate of monthly output. If it was Leyland cars, you could chop that in half for days on strike, holidays, sickness, union meetings and so on..................
Hey.. wait a minute ! I thought you had this one Amatikulu... sorry.
4/49 MK.I [PF 97,362 South African marked, All matching.
Thanks Brian ;)
As you said about new builds, mine is UF.55 A16404. Unfired except at the armory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I think it also depends on where the No4 MkIs were made. Canada made MkI* rifles right into the early fifties for an example. I don't know about Pakistan or India.
Yes, very good on NEW rifle production, but I think Spinecracker is asking about FTR dates pertaining to the Mk 1/2 and 1/3 conversions since his rifle was NOT "upgraded". Would all FTR's after a certain date have had the conversion?
dupe due to hourly data dump, sorry
That's a good question JM but my understanding of the Faz FTR programme was that on approval of the Mk1/2 and 1/3 specification, then ALL rifles undergoing FTR at the plant were converted to that spec. But this is pretty ambiguous in our workshop notes as it goes on about 'total conversion programme etc etc...'
Can anyone take this further.........?
Knowing how slowly the wheels grind* in the MoD (and before it the Ministry of Supply), I imagine its quite likely that batches of Mk1/1*s would have been processed under "Mk1/1* refurbishment" conracts for a long time - years, probably - after the Mk2 spec became available in c.1949.
Another factor is the extreme miserliness of the equipment procurement process: if it cost a shilling more to create a Mk1/2/3 over the contract quote for a Mk1/1* refurb, then this price increment may have been debated and vetoed for months and months - especially if the contracts had already been entered into the defence budgets one or two years ahead.
I don't suppose any Fazakerley records still exist, but I expect that there were many different No4 FTR contracts - and that the specifications may have varied slightly.
*(If you go to a UK military surplus sale, you'll see great quantities of brand-new kit being flogged off. Often, this is stuff like spare parts that were only manufactured and sent to store just as the original kit was being withdrawn from service.)
The problem with not changing all to the Mk1/2 and 1/3 is that you'd have to have dual production lines running at the same time. One line for straight FTR and another line for FTR PLUS conversion to 1/2 or 1/3. I must confess that while I have never deliberately looked for, say, 1953 straight F/FTR rifles, I've seen thousands of 53 Mk1/2 and 1/3 F/FTR's .
Yes, it's just the notion of a mixed fleet scenario at Faz when...... anyway!
Succinctly put. I would have thought that as soon as conversion from Mk.1 and Mk. 1* to Mk.1/2 and Mk.1/3 respectively began in 1949, any Mk.1/Mk.1* going through FTR would have been converted.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
I am just interested in whether or not 1949 FTRed No.4 Mk.1s are uncommon or as common as muck.