Ammo for L42A1 and L39

I checked out the Reloaders area of the forum and my head started to spin.

I have an L42A1 and an L39. Trying to insure that I am using the appropriate ammo in these rifles. I have used South African Surplus 7.62 in the L42A1, but have yet to fire the L39.

Were these rifles set up to fire 144 grain bullets? If so, is the surplus 7.62 generally 147 grain?

I do reload, but I have searched for 144 grain projectiles with little success.

Should I continue to shoot the South African Surplus through these? I also see Palma bullets are 155gr.

I appreciate some direction as I don't want to harm these rifles. I want to enjoy them and shoot them worry free.

Thanks,

Brian

Been shooting 150-155gr bullets for years through mine. Even shot 168 and 173gr rounds at first, but they don't do any better as far I can tell. No dramas or headspace increases or anything! The scope is best calibrated w/ the lighter bullets for me (in meters), heavies seem to match the graduations in yards (but not quite- too flat shooting). Up close its hard to tell - past four hundred things get more noticable.

Your reloading so your Enfield's won't care what bullet weight you shoot, the standard chamber pressure for the 7.62 NATO is 50,000 CUP (copper units pressure) or 60,000 PSI (transducer method)

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Please note bullet weights for NATO ammunition.

Cartridge, Ball, L2A1 (United Kingdom): 7.62x51mm ball cartridge, with three subvariants (A2-A4) with unknown differences.
Cartridge, Ball, L42A1 (United Kingdom): 7.62x51mm ball cartridge, 155 grain round
Cartridge, Ball, L44A1 (United Kingdom): 7.62x51mm ball cartridge, 144 grain round
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Ball, F4 (Australia): 144-grain 7.62x51mm NATO ball cartridge. Australian equivalent to U.S. M80 round.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Ball, M59 (United States): 150.5-grain 7.62x51mm NATO ball cartridge. A further development of the initial T65 cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Armor Piercing, M61 (United States): 150.5-grain 7.62x51mm NATO armor piercing round, black cartridge tip.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Tracer, M62 (United States): 142-grain (9.2*g) tracer cartridge, orange cartridge tip.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Grenade, M64 (United States): 7.62x51mm NATO grenade launching blank.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Ball, M80 (United States): 146-grain 7.62x51mm NATO ball cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Match, M118 (United States): 173-grain 7.62x51mm NATO Full Metal Jacket Boat Tail round specifically designed for Match purposes.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Ball, Special, M118LR (United States): 175-grain 7.62x51mm NATO Hollow Point Boat Tail round specifically designed for long-range sniping. Produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Duplex, M198 (United States): 7.62x51mm NATO duplex round with two 84-grain (5.4*g) bullets. The developmental designation was T314E3.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Tracer, M276 (United States): 7.62x51mm NATO so-called "Dim Tracer" with reduced effect primarily for use with night vision devices, green cartridge tip with pink ring.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Match, M852 (United States): 168-grain 7.62x51mm NATO Hollow-Point Boat-Tail cartridge, specifically designed for use in National Match competitions, later approved by US Army JAG for combat use by snipers.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Saboted Light Armor Penetrator (SLAP), M948 (United States): 7.62x51mm NATO Saboted Light Armor Penetrator cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Armor Piercing, M993 (United States): 126.6-grain 7.62x51mm NATO armor piercing round, black cartridge tip.

The originally approved rounds in British service were all 144gr. (I'm working from memory here- My info came from Mr. Laidler's book.)

As far as reloading goes- just don't max. out your loads and you will have a fine time. (W/ due prudence, that is!)

The South African ball ammo seems fine, only fired a little out of the L42's, however I have fired many thousands out of an M1a whilst shooting in the standing position. No dramas there except that accuracy went away enough to notice after firing 100-150rds w/o cleaning.

Your SA ammo isn't Boxer primed, is it? Mine's all Berdan. (and about gone!)

Thanks all for the information.

I will start to work up some loads. I may order some of the Sierra 155 grain Palma projectiles to start. I have a bunch of the SMK 168s, but I think it would be wise to see how the 155s do.

I have quite a bit of the SA ammo left. Mine is Berdan primed as well. I wished it was Boxer primed.

Thanks all,

Brian

Brian B

The reloading information I posted above is from a Lyman reloading manual dated 1968, as you can see all the pressures are listed in CUP long before the transducer method and the higher pressures which were listed as “PSI”.

Below are from the same Lyman reloading manual and from U.S. Army TM 43-0001-2, the maximum load for IMR-4895 in the reloading manual is 42.5 grains of IMR-4895 at a chamber pressure of 51,200 CUP.

The military loading is 42 grains of IMR-4895 at a chamber pressure of 50,000 CUP.

As you can see there is only half a grain difference in the amount of powder used for the exact same bullet between the .308 and 7.62 NATO with 1,200 CUP of pressure difference and NOT 10,000 PSI difference as often misquoted.



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Having seen the similar closed thread I step into this pool with some trepidation. However, as I dont reload and have been unable to come to a clear understanding with my searches, I have a question.

I picked up a some ammunition in 50 round plastic holders marked '7.62mm Ball L2A2 SNIPER' and ' RG 113*? 92W' The rounds are stamped 'RG 92'

I know its Radway Green and 144gr but there seem to have been several grades of L2A2.

How did this grade differ from 'normal' squaddie issue and should I look upon it as for use when I am trying for greater accuracy? In an Enforcer.

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnr527

I know its Radway Green and 144gr but there seem to have been several grades of L2A2.

How did this grade differ from 'normal' squaddie issue and should I look upon it as for use when I am trying for greater accuracy? In an Enforcer.

John

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As I understand it there isn't any real difference, it's just that the first few thousand rounds off the production line after the machines were recalibrated would have been for sniper use. The next lot would be for normal rifle and the last batches for machine gun use. Once a certain number of rounds had been manufactured, or the machines run for a set amount of hours the machines would be checked again an recalibrated for the next production run.

I can only speak from personal experience, with my two L42A1 and Enfield Enforcer. The ammunition that was “originally” used was Match/Sniper grade Green Spot RG 7.62mm L2A2 144grn ammunition. I have personally been using L2A2 RG 13.5.92W (Sniper) from ranges 200 yards to1,100 yards through the L42A1’s with good results. I don’t feel that the (sniper) ammo out shoots the normal L2A2 ammunition, to any greater extent once you have zeroed to a “BATCH” stick with it.

I have also used Black Spot 7.62mm RG L42A1, L42A2 & L42A3, with 155 grn with excellent results. I feel that the heavier 155 grn round produce a more consistent shoot, and thus the accuracy is increased compared to the L2A2 144grn especially at the longer ranges (600 – 1,100 yards) I am not a hand loader so cannot comment on this special, area of ammunition production.

I am still using RG L42A3 18.8.08 Black Spot ammunition and hitting V-Bulls, at 1000 yards. Much to the surprise to people around me, with all there new fangled equipment and special sight etc…..

I asked the OC of the support weapons div this very question earlier today on your behalf and he said, in as many words, what Harry Mac said. In fact, Harry could be Colonel Miller! In short, they're the same but while one in every, say, thousand rounds of the later batches from the line is tested to ensure its consistency, one in every, say 100 is tested from the first run to test and vaidate its consistency and THIS is set aside and marked as green spot for snipers. There's a bit more to it of course (like we don't use much non-linked 7.62mm now) but that's very basically, it!

I don't have the luxury or access to RG so I have used this one load with the 168g SMK for over ten years. It works for me and I have used it to 600 meters with good results. I can find nothing wrong with the SMK especially on the cold shots. Unless Brain has found a boxcar full of RG hidden in California he is beyond help and should look to his load books. I have three .50 cal tins of RG in those nice plastic boxes but it's easier for me to use what I can find in Ca.

This won't help Brain it just works for me.

...........MJ..............

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJ1

I don't have the luxury or access to RG so I have used this one load with the 168g SMK for over ten years. It works for me and I have used it to 600 meters with good results. I can find nothing wrong with the SMK especially on the cold shots. Unless Brain has found a boxcar full of RG hidden in California he is beyond help and should look to his load books. I have three .50 cal tins of RG in those nice plastic boxes but it's easier for me to use what I can find in Ca.

This won't help Brain it just works for me.

...........MJ..............

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That is some very nice shooting sir!!!!! I think I may try some SMK's in my CAL conversion.

Give it a go, can't hurt and may surprise you.
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After we'd overhauled No4T's and L42's, we'd occasionally send the accuracy target or a diagramme of it back to the user. We'd do this because while we'd certify it for function and accuracy, we didn't shoot it for zero. As a result, the paperwork had a sticky label on it to the effect that '...SNIPER RIFLE. Zeroing is the responsibility of the end user/sniper'

Looking at those targets, I'd LOVED to have sent one back to the sniper saying that '....we cannot guarantee the accuract or zero of this rifle' and see what he said when he saw them! FANTASTIC shooting by a grand old lady.

I'm just going to take those pics up to the sniper div. now and pass them around the two classes and ask that anyone who gets a better group than that with the L115, come over and see us........................

Don't tell them the shooter is 63 and wears thick glasses. LOL Or that these are 25 yard pistol targets.

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Just as a matter of interest, the picture is now on the students notice board. And no one has got a better group either! Incidentally, a couple of the class thought the picture of the rifles on the firing point were being fired out to sea. Presumably because the background looked like a bit of a rough sea! Hopefully shootin' at pirates.......................

Excellent shooting MJ1 and the rifle looks as good as it shoots, I was wondering how many shots were fired in to the targets? It looks as though the SMK 168gr dose the job!!

Just to add another option, while I prefer Federal GM 168 MKs, lately I have been using Remington Premier Match with the Sierra 168 grain HPBT match projectile and the results mirror the photos above. Generally around a half minute at 100 yards. Its a few bucks cheaper but my L42A1 seems to really like it.

Hi, I Reload My 7.62mm With 46 Grains Vit N140/vectan Sp7 & 145 Grain Privi Fmj Heads. Shoots V - Bulls @ 1000yds

I've run scads of 175, 168, 155, 150gr Sierra HPBT MKs as well as 150gr Nosler ballistic tips and a "wee" bit of Radway Green 147 (black dot) through L42a1's since 1995 or so w/ no ill affect. (Well, probably some throat erosion- but they had some anyways.) Mostly run 150NBT's and 155 Sierras now, mostly just to try to keep the numbers on the scope's elevating turret reasonably close to "theory".
The one rifle has been drama free all these years, another (back in a friend's hands now) needed the front pad sweated back on and new screws installed. Must have been the horrooorible 7.62x51 that knocked it loose!:rolleyes:

I´m using 155gr sierra palma with 45,5gr of hodgdon varget or same charge
BL(C)-2.
both sub MOA (for L42A1).
L39A1 to be tested yet.

Sorry, all I have is American reloading info and no British military data :dunno:

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Alliant now has the contract to produce ammunition at the Lake City Arsenal, beating out Remington and Winchester for the contract.

Alliant Reloader 15 (RL15) is now used in the M118 special long range sniper ammunition. NOTE, this ammunition is now loaded to 52,000 CUP or the same chamber pressure as .308 Winchester. The old long range M118 was loaded to 50,000 CUP and was loaded with IMR-4895 or WC-846 which is BLC-2.

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