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Were these types without the fore-cap stored in Malaysia for many years after the '56 insurgency?
My second #5 (all-matching) appears to be one of these and has the very dark wood finish.
Am a very late-bloomer with guns and my gun buddies who like some milsurps are not interested in LEs.
Because they were used and abused in the jungles of Malaysia or to put it another way............... rode hard and put away wet :yikes:
You could say the frequency of inspection and quality of maintenance went down hill after Mr. Laidler left the area. :crying:
"Now this is the Law of the Jungle, as old and as true as the sky.
If you don't oil and grease it, your Enfield will rust and die."
by Rudyard Laidler Kipling :rolleyes:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...No5rust1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...No5rust2-1.jpg
Specifically, a group of No.5s were imported about four years ago. It is generally believed that they were police surplus from the Malayan gov't. Condition was good to fair. Some have socket markings, "FMP" and some had a brass round id disc inletted into the buttstock. Forestocks with or with the ferrule have nothing to do with them being from Malaya.
Laufer, Most of the No.5s that were imported into the US had seen service in the Pacific Rim. First by the military and then police. One of mine is marked 'FMP' (roughly, Federation of Malaysain Police tho' I have seen other interpretations) and under the cosmo had, in old typewriter font a note, cellophane taped to the buttstock that read "Sing. Pol. Dept.". Unfortunately it disintegrated while gently trying to remove and save it.
Those from the Pacific Rim are usually identified by varying levels of rust damage under the furniture, primarily under the fore end at the action body.
Brad
FMP is a Malaysian marking? That would be on the buttsocket, right? This is interesting, as my rifle has an FMP marking on the buttsocket. The stock also had a really heavy lacker, and some parts had pitting from corrosion; the stock actually was from another No. 5; the serial number just had Xs put over it and my rifle's number stamped below it. The stock also had a bad gouge around the band that allowed it to move freely, meaning the handguard would jump off when you shot it; fixed it with some wood dough though, although it looks ugly.
"That would be on the buttsocket, right?" --bigstick61
Yes. Although mine also had lacquer, or shellac lovingly applied with a mop, it was in pretty good condition overall.
Brad
Here's the appropriate flag
Ed's pictures show what condition the rifles got into in Malaya. It was extremely harsh - with a capital H - on weaponry, kit and men. But once they went through the big Base Workshop system, they'd come out like new. The worst rifles were those blued with the pre-phosphate 'controlled corrosion' method of blueing. Once those rifles (and pistols, the little Enfields were the worst) got within 100 miles of the edge of the jungle or swampland, they'd start to what we called 'bleed' in that you'd start to see rust bubbles forming as if from nowhere. A bit like a Leyland car or MGB wing/fender bottoms. It was downhill then as nothing would stop it, not even the hot oil bath. But once they were call-in and stripped, beaded and phosphated, then they'd go on for a long time. Of course, 'a long time' is relative but every 3 or 4 years or so would be a reasonable wear time in those climates.
I suppose those rifles that were sold off in the late 70's onwards from the Pacific rim nations will all be pretty dire now, not having the huge Base Workshop facilities that we had and were able to provide. We did all of the FMP and Singapore Police weaponry, the Fijian Army (quite good kit). The man running the programme for the Singapore police was a great bloke to us called Mr Soliano and very often brought in a crate of Tiger beer or whatever and treated us to a Chinese meal out in Robinsons one Christmas. Has anyone got a Singapore Police Bren marked SPF by the LB serial number. The woodwork got a bit of a battering in the jungle and in the lorries but the hot liseed bath made it as waterproof as it was ever going to get.
I seem to remember the Malayan Police flag had a crown at the top..... but maybe not after independence......., or maybe it had a Malayan Kings crown
I digress.........................
Peter, Do you know if it was lacquer or shellac that was slathered on the carbines?
TIA,
Brad
Since I had to remove the lacquer from the areas I was going to fix, I just got rid of it all and put on an oil finish. I hadn't realized by LE came from Malaysia, although the thought poppoed into my head once when I heard that the Malaysians eventually started putting alot of lacquer onto their stocks to keep out the moisture.Quote:
Originally Posted by bradtx
An interesting thing on mine is that where there is heavy piting from corrosion, the rust is usually gone and there is actually parkerizing over where I would imagine the metal would be white, which as far as I know indicates the weapon was refinished.
Ah, buff that right out!!!:D;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Horton
Here's a Typical SPF marking on an Australian L1A1 rifle
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...markings-1.jpg
I NEVER saw shllac or varnish applied to Military or Police rifles in the Far East thatre. As far as I'm concerned, all of our wood went into a hot-to-the-hand linseed oil tank. Varnish/shellac would serve one purpose, and that was to keep the damp and moisture IN. And believe me, there was plenty of damp and moisture over there!
Without doubt, your rifle is one of those that had seen a lot of service and had found its way through the main workshops on the Ayer Rajah Road. Nice, relaxed place to work. They went back into Ordnance or Service like new. The 25 or so rifles set aside with 25 Company RASC/RCT at Gloucester Barracks and used for funerals and high ranking Guard mountings were originally highly polished No5's with gleaming bayonets but later these were SLR's. Once again, highly polished with gleaming bayonets with wooden grips.
"Varnish/shellac would serve one purpose, and that was to keep the damp and moisture IN." --Peter Laidler
One hundred persent true!. While removing the cosmo and the lacquer/shellac/varnish my furniture on the FMP marked No.5 was pulpy down to ~1/32" below the wood's surface and worse in a couple of areas on the buttstock!
I used a home made wood scraper to get to the good wood. Some BLO applications over time has the furniture good as new.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
I don't know if the patterning of the buttstock is from the water or the wood.
Brad