Sten Bayonet - real or repro?

I grabbed this Sten bayonet a few years ago ( $50 ) and I've tried reading as much as I could find, and viewed as many pictures as there were. But there doesn't seem to be any definitive place to find out exactly what does a real bayonet look like. I've seen a few repros, and they appear fairly obvious that they were in fact reproductions. And to be fair, most of the guys were selling them as such. But I still can't find anything, especially on the web, that shows what a real Sten bayonet should look like.

I understand they are a rare item, and have heard a bit of the tale of them being destroyed long ago, but I can't find a pic of any that have been determined to be real.

I can't tell from the welds, stampings, etc what a real one should look like.

Obviously any further information is appreciated fellas! I practice my SMG charges in my basement.

This one is stamped along the retention spring - B&J S.L.
Along the body - B&J ******

https://www.milsurps.com/
https://www.milsurps.com/
https://www.milsurps.com/
https://www.milsurps.com/

Hi Koldt. Don't know anything about Stens but suggest asking Stencollector. He's on the forums from time to time and on CGN. Good luck with your research.

Also, Mr. Laidler did a tiny bit of research when writing his STEN book.

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Originally Posted by dastier

Hi Koldt. Don't know anything about Stens but suggest asking Stencollector. He's on the forums from time to time and on CGN. Good luck with your research.

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Here's his info if you want to send him a PM or email.

Military Surplus Collectors Forums

I would suggest being extremely sceptical of a sten bayonet unless you know for sure of it's history. I knew of a gunsmith in B.C. Canada that has a stamp set of C broadarrow stamps and watched him stamp a repro from a known retailer and sell it as original. It's out there now. That was many years ago.

Sure looks authentic to me, but note ... I'm not a bayonet collector. ;)

Regards,
Badger

Jeeezzz, I figured with all the "talent" on here, I'd get a few different directions to try. So far really, nuthin'.

Anybody got an idea where to look, to determine exactly what a war time production bayonet should look like? Interweb, literature, film, PAM, word of mouth, rumor???? Anything? So far, I've physically examined about a half dozen types of post war/repro/fake bayonets, and looked at a few more pictures. But no where have I seen, read, been shown or had described a real/war time production.

I'll buy the book that can give a definitive answer... Anything...

Looks like plenty of suggestions to me. Might try the Lee Enfield sub-forum for maximum exposure. It is an Enfield after all! The Edged weapons sub-forum seems appropriate also. Folks here won't answer if they don't really know, generally. That's a good thing, yes? Patience!

BTW I had a model 12 trench gun mystery that went nowhere for about a month and a half, then it got REAL interesting! Thanks to a member who was looking at something completely different, the question was answered. Sgt Rock put the clues together for me.:super:

Link:Model 12 trench markings - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Anybody got a scan maybe of a reference book?

Anything, a bone, anything.

The sten bayonet is the one bayonet that was so cheaply made, that it is difficult to tell an original from a poor copy. As such, most collectors will only buy them priced as fakes. There were a number on ebay a few years back where the seller claimed he got them from Hercules (or Hero, I can't recall for sure) surplus in TO back in the 60s, so those could be real. But as they say, buy the item, not the story.

IMA did sell fakes with all the stampings on them a decade or so back. Their more recent stuff does not have the stampings.

In the Sten Carbine book, there is a photo of a mk2 with bayonet in the Cdn section, The photo is form the archives if I recall. Interesting evidence that the bayonets made it into Cdn service, or the factory at least.

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Originally Posted by stencollector

The sten bayonet is the one bayonet that was so cheaply made, that it is difficult to tell an original from a poor copy. As such, most collectors will only buy them priced as fakes. There were a number on ebay a few years back where the seller claimed he got them from Hercules (or Hero, I can't recall for sure) surplus in TO back in the 60s, so those could be real. But as they say, buy the item, not the story.

IMA did sell fakes with all the stampings on them a decade or so back. Their more recent stuff does not have the stampings.

In the Sten Carbine book, there is a photo of a mk2 with bayonet in the Cdn section, The photo is form the archives if I recall. Interesting evidence that the bayonets made it into Cdn service, or the factory at least.

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Yup, I've seen a number that were obvious fakes made during the last 20 years or so, just having a hard time finding something definitive that shows what a genuine one should look like.

BTW, have you got the PAS4 functioning yet? I've got the light going (that wasn't a huge feat) but still can't figure out the main tube.

Are you going to be back for the Easter show?

I set the PAS4 up on a rifle for display, and that's as far as I have gone on it. I hoped to be back for the Easter show this year, but I will miss it by a week. That means I will have missed it two years in a row. Oh well, every day is like a gun show over here, you just can't take very much home with you.

THe man to ask is Graham Priest however I knwo what he will say, it is almost impossible to tell the fake and the real even with both side by side. If you got it from canada the chances are better but.....................

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Originally Posted by old-smithy

THe man to ask is Graham Priest however I knwo what he will say, it is almost impossible to tell the fake and the real even with both side by side. If you got it from canada the chances are better but.....................

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Therein lies the problem. Where does one find a known real bayonet to compare it to? A picture, resource, anything....

Archie Goldstein who was a PRINCE of a guy as was Lou Fine the store manager for that matter had a HUGE OD coloured drum(aircraft part container) FULL of the MkII Sten bayonets for what I thought was an AWFUL price.i.e., $14.95 or thereabouts.

You could ALSO get brand NEW EM2 bayonets and No7 bayonets for $4.95 WITH SCABBARDS and ALL you wanted to boot.So who bought the MkII Sten toad stabbers ? Not I !! Was this a tactical error of the first magnitude? I doubt it.

Cheers,

JR

With 20/20 hindsight, there were certainly better investments to make than the hercules sten bayonets. I have seen a few ebay sellers state that theirs came from that can of bayonets. As such they were able to get $120 instead of the $60 or so that regular sten bayonet (copies) were selling for at the time.

That pair of matched LB snipers in their chests that were available locally about 8 years back for 1K each come to mind as an investment that was not properly chased down. :banghead:

There could be a discussion thread just on the Hercules store. I remember buying 2" mortar bodies for $2 each right out of their shipping crates back in 81. Boy, would I like to get a second chance at those.

Can't help with a photo of a real one but can help with a photo of a known repro right here to compare yours with. Go to Sten

All the best
Frank Trzaska

Frank, thanx for the link. I'm saving the pics for my own library.

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Originally Posted by koldt

Therein lies the problem. Where does one find a known real bayonet to compare it to? A picture, resource, anything....

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I know of several real ones but a picture will not help, like I said side by side a fake and a real one are almost indistinquishable! Even Graham has to go by his lables, a bad fake is easy to tell, the angles are wrong etc, the only reference i know is Grahams book the Spirit of the Pike which has excellent pictures and lots of too look out fors. It isnt on line, but a good library shoudl be able to get a loan copy i should think or you can buy a copy

There is a fake one on my web site, if that will help

The biggest problem is that apparentley most were sent to Canada that were not destroyed, like I said Canadian provenence will help, a friend of mine bought one from Canda last year off Ebay went cheap but all the signs are that it is probably real, but ??????????????????

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Originally Posted by old-smithy

I know of several real ones but a picture will not help, like I said side by side a fake and a real one are almost indistinquishable! Even Graham has to go by his lables, a bad fake is easy to tell, the angles are wrong etc, the only reference i know is Grahams book the Spirit of the Pike which has excellent pictures and lots of too look out fors. It isnt on line, but a good library shoudl be able to get a loan copy i should think or you can buy a copy

There is a fake one on my web site, if that will help

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Thanks very much. I found a couple of sites that are listing the book for sale. Just have to ask "Santa" to order it. She already ordered me about $500 worth of gun/bayonet/crap hardcover books so far for this Christmas, one more book aint' going to hurt.

I've seen a few fakes, and yes they were fairly easily distinguishable. But wow, the fake on the page Frank linked, is sure a good fake (if there is such a thing).

I couldn't open up the picture on your web site to the fake Sten.

Either way, I'm not doing the research to simply determine if mine is a real one or not. 50 bucks ain't going to kill me, but I like doing all the other reading that comes along with this quest.