If you can forgive the messed with flipper, this is an interesting Carbine. It belongs to a good friend of mine in Christchurch, N.Z. Mike.
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If you can forgive the messed with flipper, this is an interesting Carbine. It belongs to a good friend of mine in Christchurch, N.Z. Mike.
Nice early Inland trigger housing with dog leg hammer.
Always enjoy your pics Mike.
What do you think happened to the rear flip?
Cheers,
Charlie
Hi Charlie,Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
The rear flip was replaced by a block that fitted into the rear dovetail, which was in turn threaded in the top of the block to allow for the mounting of a skope.
This rifle spent it's post war days in New Zealand being used to hunt wild pigs in the native bush of New Zealand.
I guess we are lucky that the mounting of the scope was done in this manner, rather than the alternative, which saw some rifles drilled and tapped directly into the metal work :(
Regards
Alex
Thank you Mike! Have you run into Al Brass yet?
If you mean Alistair Brass of Christchurch New Zealand, I know him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hollinger
My family has a MB as well, and I have a Chev C8ax.
I meet up with Alistair at most MVCC and Militaria events here in Christchurch, and local towns as well, was talking to him three weeks ago.
Regards
Alex
That is the one!
No shame Alister Brass!!!
[imgw]http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/BillHollinger/Lola/P4220127.jpg[/imgw]
Do you know Jon Rogers also???
[imgw]http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/BillHollinger/Lola/P4200006.jpg[/imgw]
Paul Fitzgerald (USA), Jon Rogers (OZ) and Frank Berg (Norway)
[imgw]http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/BillHollinger/Lola/2003rleg503.jpg[/imgw]
Alister in the middle and Jon next to him (behind my son Jeff, kneeling next to Lee Ermey)
Mike, I'm so sorry we highjacked your thread! Won't happen again! :madsmile:
Funny I was just thinking the same thing :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hollinger
Sorry but have not met Jon Rogers, it looks like he lives on the West Island of New Zealand :lol:
I will get the thread back on track later tonight, when I hope to add another photo, after consultation with Mike for some input.
Regards
Alex
Hello and welcome billyvan,
Nice to meet any friend of Mike's.
I agree your so lucky that's how they mounted the scope.
Such a early collectible carbine.
I can't tell from the pictures but is the leaf missing?
Would it be possible to install a reproduction leaf and spring for now, until a real one could be located?
Finding just a real Flip leaf seperate would be tough I'd imagine.
But buying a cheap repro flip and pulling the leaf, spring and pin would keep the cost down.
I bought 3 real flip sight bases from a dealers junk box. I still haven't used them but will probably have to buy a few cheap repro sights just to rob the leafs from them.
Thanks for sharing this one with us.
I enjoy reading the info our fellow collectors in NZ pass on to us.
Wish I could spend a year or two over there in search of the secret US training bases. Tunnels, caves and all built to help train the ally forces...kept top secret.
This is a true story passed on to me from a buyer of a old outboard motor I sold on Ebay a few years ago, in 1996.
He lives in Australia and stumbled upon a buried cache of crated US arms on a friends 5000+ acre ranch. Their Range Rover fell into it.
He said all were crated and included M1A1s, Carbines, pistols, Garands and Thompsons. Along with Ammo, magazines, rations ...etc. Thought to have been stashed for a possible invasion by Japan.
I used his exporter here in the states to ship out the motor. But it took so long for him to get it, that the time has expired for him to leave me feedback. He got it and was happy with it but I didn't think to save his E-mail address.
After they had some whacko over there shoot a bunch of people at some Tourist attraction the gun laws changed, he and his friend had to turn in there treasures to the authorities.
I have no record of his name or contact info. I wish I was able to contact him to gather more information about their finds. He had documented a lot of information on the find and had heard of another find along a nearby coast.
I wish there was a way I could go back thru my sales to find him again. But without him being able to leave feedback, no record exists that I know of.
Happy Collecting...Keep Searching !!
Cheers,
Charlie
The early Inlands are truly the cream of the crop for desirable carbines. With their early features, dulite finish, various stock markings, and 42 barrel dates, they are unique and would be anyone's ultimate carbine find. IP, UN-QUALITY, and line-outs are close seconds, but do not beat the early Inlands IMHO. Thanks for sharing Mikey.
The guys would like to see all the pics of that Carbine that you can send Alex. Might be better if you do it as they are all in my PC and I am away from home for a few days. This thread turned out to be good news for you Bill ! Cheers, Mike.
Lots of questions and info here Charlie, so I will try to cover it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
I'm lucky to have it, a friend had it, and decided it didn’t fit with the rest of his collection, offered it to me, and I brought it simply as it was an M1, but only realised its importance after Mike filled me in :)
That was early in the collecting as well, so I have certainly learnt allot since then
Yip leaf missing, I thought a replacement block had been built and put in, but didn’t consider that would have required considerable skill to get the dovetail correct.
On closer inspection and removal of a bit of paint from the scope mounting block shows probably the original flip sight has had the leaf and apertures removed, and the gap left between the sides of the flip base filled with braising rod.
It's then been drilled and tapped for the scope mounting, but also champhered front and back, which has taken metal from the original base as well :(.
So even if all the braising rod can be removed, they have eaten into the original steel as well.
I have an aftermarket rear sight base leaf and flip, but have never looked into putting it in.
The stories of buried/hidden stocks of equipment are many, and yes very interesting, I do a fair amount of research for family members re what our family did during WW1 and WW2 and there are always stories out there, but who knows if we will be lucky enough to be the one to track it down.
I will put some more pics up soon, but just want to make sure I'm not doing the wrong thing by posting some of them.
Cheers
Alex
OK, being one of Mikes understudies, I would normally follow his advice on what should be shown in the public arena regarding details of markings etc on rare Carbines, but in his absence, I will throw it open to all of you, are there any particular areas of interest, that I can show photos of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey51
My one area of interest has always been the faint Inland logo and flaming bomb on the trigger housing that look almost to be embossed rather than stamped, real hard to get a photo of that shows exactly how they look though.
Regards
Alex
I don't know that any one place is any better than another. I think the best way to look at photo taking is to think of what you would want to see up close and go from there. Some areas that are of particular interest to me and I'm sure others are:
Rear sight base (all sides, especially staking or punch marks)
Serial number area (rear flat where contract makers stamp)
Barrel/gas flat stampings (especially Inlands)
Barrel proof marks and punch mark (NPM)
Import stampings (right rear side of the receiver, below rear sight on the slide rail) This is a place ofter overlooked for import stamps.
Sling well stampings
Stock cartouches/rebuild stamps to include the hand guard.
Butt plate and numbers like that of an Irwin Pedersen or Stardard Products.
Breach and top front of receiver
Front sight (especially any markings, stampings or specific machining)
Any (any) paint or ink marks (stock barrel groove on S.G.), stamps, engravings, modifications, tool marks, manufacture stamps or marks, stake marks, on any and all parts or any odd characteristics that one would feel of interest.
Use the macro setting on your camera and a tri-pod for close-up shots where a lot of detail is wanted and soft room lights. Place subject on a absorbing back ground like a gray or green Army wool blanket or towel. Don't use white or black or any dark or bright colored back grounds. If you have any marks or stamps that you want to stand out, use white chalk to fill it in. let's have some fun!!!:super:
Below are all the same .U. trigger taken on different back grounds.
[imgw]http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/BillHollinger/Lola/PB210009.jpg[/imgw]
Although close, the black back ground shows the subject lighter than actual.
[imgw]http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/BillHollinger/Lola/PB210008.jpg[/imgw]
The white back ground shows the subject as darker than actual and with little detail.
[imgw]http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/BillHollinger/Lola/PB210007.jpg[/imgw]
The gray back ground shows the subject's true color and in better detail.
[imgw]http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/BillHollinger/Lola/PB210010.jpg[/imgw]
Gray back ground with white chalk highlighting.
Thanks Bill,
I did strip it and photograph all components and marking I could find, but that was interesting re the background colour highlighting the item differently.
I use my wife’s Digital camera (high end Pentax Digital SLR) so getting the macro's is no problem, but I will post what I have taken already, and may have a bit of a play to see if I can improve on them.
In the mean time here are the two sides of the trigger housing with the Inland Logo, and flaming bomb.
[IMGW]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g275/carbineaholic/26453/IMGP1191.jpg[/IMGW]
Inland Logo
[IMGW]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g275/carbineaholic/26453/IMGP1185.jpg[/IMGW]
Flaming Bomb, real hard to see, will work on this photo.
Hopefully you get the idea about looking like embossed, rather than stamped.
Have 18330 and the housing also has a lightly applied Inland logo compared with my later Inlands, with no flaming bomb present.
My question is in regard to the punch mark on the bolt. Had the good fotune to show this one to Newscotlander, who is extremely knowledgeable on all things Inland. He pointed out the punch mark on the bolt, marked IO in a circle. It's very small, lightly applied, and is located in the middle of the bolt. Not sure when they moved the location to the end.
Would share some photos, but my home PC is still having issues.
Here's Billyvans pictures of the mag catch on #26453. David, I will work with him to try and get some bolt pics for you. I do know it is an IO in a circle, and the hammer is an H in a Shield dogleg. More later. Mike.
My IO in circle bolt has the punch mark in the middle also.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
This one has the same IO stamp by the look of it. but no punch mark in the center of the bolt.
[IMGW]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g275/carbineaholic/26453/IMGP1203.jpg[/IMGW]
[IMGW]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g275/carbineaholic/26453/IMGP1201.jpg[/IMGW]
Thanks Billyvan. I can see what could be a shallow punch mark on the bolt, just forward of the extractor. This might be what David is talking about. I think I can also see a bomb on the right hand receiver rail, adjacent to the extractor. I have a question ? I'm going to post a pic of the scope block in the dovetail to show the guys what you described. Maybe get their advice on what to do about it ?. What I want to know, "Has anyone ever seen that line and mark above the Inland Div in this S/N range before ? ". I've been in Hospital for two days but am now back on the "front line", so let me know if you want me to post the rest of the pics. I know the ones the guys will want to see. Cheers Bud, Mike.
Mikey, 18330 also has this line. It appears that at least in this range, the Inland logo was applied with enough force to imprint the shape of the die.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-2.jpg
dbarn, I love the wood. Can we see more of that stock?.....Frank
No problem, will post some photos tonight after work.
Some photos of the stock, flip sight, barrel, and stock markings. It would be interesting to know how the the stock markings compare with 26453.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-8.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-9.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tandard-10.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tandard-11.jpg
dbarn, thanks for the pics. that is a carbine to be proud of. Beutiful weapon, beutiful stock. Sling well markings are just great. Photography presents that carbine as close to holding it as can be. Thanks.....Frank
Thank you Frank. I am only it's temporary caretaker. The entire barrel on 18330 is original finish and is obviously blue. Newscotlander was instrumental in determining that during Inland's finishing process, that the barrel, barrel band, front sight, receiver, and flip sight were all finished together as a unit and this one is no exception. At some point, Inland began to dull the finish just ahead of the gas cylinder as well as the receiver. It's always good to see other early (1942) Inlands and compare the differences.