m1903 questions Help appreciated

Recently purchased an m1903 from a local pawn shop, got it home and disassembled it, did a cleaning and inspection and every thing looks OK. But when I took it to the range yesterday and placed a round into the chamber closing the bolt was stiff on the round. I spoke to an individual that told me the actions on the 03's where always stiff and that it was normal, I personally think is not safe to fire. Is this a head spacing issue? The barrell is I think dated 1933 if I am reading it correctly, under the flaming bomb is 1 - 33, if that is true how could this rifle have not enough headspacing.

I am not familiar with these american rifles if this is a headspacing issue can you adjuist the bolt like the enfields by replacing parts?

What is the serial number range? Are there any markings on the bolt (handle, rear lug)? Can you tell if the bolt is new (no wear marks)? Is the indexing mark on the ledt side of the barrel next to the receiver aligning with the receiver index mark? What ammunition did you use? Have you inspected the chamber closely? When you extracted the round, were there any scrape markes on the case? This information might help iin identifying the problem.

Beanbandit,

Does your rifle have a stamped sheet metal trigger guard/magazine or a milled one? A pinched stamped trigger guard can cause feeding problems. And yea...a new old stock bolt can be stiff.

LB

Can you post some pics? Worth a 1000 words.

-Jeff L

ok some images, I made a red box around what I think is the alignment mark, the bolt is well used, SN# 97xxxx, milled and not stamped trigger guard.



https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...p0056oth-1.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3443/imgp0056o.jpg

If you have an empty case, by that I mean "no Powder", with a bullet seated. You can "smoke" the case, or balcken it, or use layout dye etc. Then chamber the cartridge. Scrape or drag marks can be found more easily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bean_Bandit

Recently purchased an m1903 from a local pawn shop, got it home and disassembled it, did a cleaning and inspection and every thing looks OK. But when I took it to the range yesterday and placed a round into the chamber closing the bolt was stiff on the round. I spoke to an individual that told me the actions on the 03's where always stiff and that it was normal, I personally think is not safe to fire. Is this a head spacing issue? The barrell is I think dated 1933 if I am reading it correctly, under the flaming bomb is 1 - 33, if that is true how could this rifle have not enough headspacing.

I am not familiar with these american rifles if this is a headspacing issue can you adjuist the bolt like the enfields by replacing parts?

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The problem you describe could be caused by a number of things. But, you need to resolve the problem before you continue shooting the rifle.

You state that you "placed a round into the chamber [and] closing the bolt was stiff." The M1903 rifle was not intended to be loaded in that manner. With a round in the chamber, the extractor has to jump over the rim of the cartridge. And that can indeed be stiff.

Try this. Cock the rifle, lift the safety lock to the vertical position, and make sure the rifle remains pointed in a safe direction. Then, take a round, place it against the bolt face, and clip the rim under the lip of the extractor. With the round thus supported by the bolt and extractor, see if the bolt closes stiffly. If it does, then you have a headspace problem or a chamber obstruction problem. If it does not, then you need to load your rifle from the magazine in the future. The M1903 action is a controlled-feed type and is intended to be loaded from the magazine.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you find.

J.B.

The 900000 numbered Springfield was made in 1918. It was of the double haet treated variety. It should have the slickest action America issued other thah the Krag. I would trade my first born for such a unique old piece.

It might be an issue best resolved by a gunsmith who is familiar with 03s. The bolt may have been swapped out prior to sale.

-Jeff L

"... The M1903 rifle was not intended to be loaded in that ..."

On the contrary it was. In the good old USA at that time the military doctrine was that the magazine was to be held in reserve to be used only in emergencies. You can place 5 rounds in the magazine, switch the magazine cutoff to the off position and then load individual rounds.

You do have to snap the Mauser type extractor over the case head but, at least on one of mine that I just tried, there is a just noticable bump as you close the bolt.

If the action is not smooth, you need to find out chamber and headspace etc. as has been suggested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bean_Bandit

Recently purchased an m1903 from a local pawn shop, got it home and disassembled it, did a cleaning and inspection and every thing looks OK. But when I took it to the range yesterday and placed a round into the chamber closing the bolt was stiff on the round. I spoke to an individual that told me the actions on the 03's where always stiff and that it was normal, I personally think is not safe to fire. Is this a head spacing issue? The barrell is I think dated 1933 if I am reading it correctly, under the flaming bomb is 1 - 33, if that is true how could this rifle have not enough headspacing.

I am not familiar with these american rifles if this is a headspacing issue can you adjuist the bolt like the enfields by replacing parts?

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..at the detailed reponses you gotten with your post..wish you luck ..:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

heres the fix...
remove the bolt, remove the striker assembly from the bolt.
replace the bolt sans the striker assembly back into the rifle.
do this with the rifle completly assembled.
push a FACTORY round into the magazine box, with the cut off up.
pull the bolt all the way back, and push the live FACTORY round into the chamber,
it should go very easy, some resistance from the round feeding trough the magazine.
the bolt should rotate easy, {no restance} and almost fall closed.
if it doesnt, it has other issues.
dont use a mitary round, all are known to be long, a 30-06 case should be no longer then 2.477 most military cases are a little longer then that.
they feed fine, just feel tight.
if it feeds like it should, smooth.
then check headspace with a no go, then if it closes a field.
if it closes on a field, try a new bolt,
if it still closes on a field.
time for a new barrel.
if the barrel was out of index, the sight picture would be off, and you would see it when sighting down the rifle.
HOLD ON..
i just looked at the pics you posted,
barrel has been swaped by someone other then the military. and the rear sight base has been swapped as well.
the pour cross pin fit is the hint, that and the Kings sight installed.
the barrel may be out of index, and one of the reasons it feels sticky.

How often or if ever that "reserve" thing was used is somewhat lot to history. The 03 was a clip loader and didn't need the reserve like the Krag did.

I've experienced batchs of military surplus ammo that had significant variations in chambering feel. I assumed that the brass was slightly longer on the rounds that provided resistance. This was CMP surplus that was not corroded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Griff Murphey

How often or if ever that "reserve" thing was used is somewhat lot to history. The 03 was a clip loader and didn't need the reserve like the Krag did.

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if your asking about the cutoff.
it was used a bit in basic training, not so much in combat, if ever.
some cutoff levers were brite on one side so the drill instructor could see at a glance if it were on or off.

Thanks for all the great help here guys,

I took the bolt apart and just installed the bolt body and tried to feed a round with it, still had the same problem, kind of like a sticking mosin but in reverse. I even removed the extractor and tried again and still no change.

Since the one gentleman was keen enough to notice that the barrel and the sight base have been messed with along with the problems that I have encountered I have decided to drop it off at my gunsmith and see what he comes up with. I paid 600 for this rifle thinking I got a good deal but as things progress I am starting to question whether I did or not.

I am going to keep my fingers crossed and hope the fix does not involve too much expense on my end and I will give you guys an update as to what was discovered.

I wouldn't give a #*@n. It can't be serious. You still have an 03 at a bargain price. Send it to Chuckin. Or better yet, sell it to me.
Bill

I think the barrel is not fully seated in the receiver. Your witness marks do not line up and they should. SA was very careful about installing barrels and I do wonder about this barrel. I good gunsmith will figure this one out.

what i would do,
remove the rear sight sleeve, check the index, reset if needed.
re install the sight sleeve correctly, check the chamber, may need finish reamed..
test fire, and assemble..that simple.
another issue with 1903,s
replacement bolts made after WW2 were pretty rough, and on the bottom of the safety lug, they should have a shoulder, some replacement bolts dont have the little shoulder, and will make the bolt feel sticky in its operation.

Update-

picked the rifle up from the gunsmith this afternoon. The rifle would not close on the GO gauge and he ended reaming the rifle's chamber. He mentioned that it now closes just a little tight on the go gauge and is safe to fire. Hopefully if its not too cold I will be able to make it to the range this weekend.

did he fix the index issue.?

Yes, reaming the chamber area did the trick, also replaced the rear sight with the correct one. Gunsmiths opinion was that some one replaced the barrel and never did any adjustments . shoots like a champ now.

just opening up the chamber will not fix the index issue.
the barrel needs to be tighened up just a bit, or the sight base needs to be reset...

the base doesnt normally need to be removed or moved during installation, the line at the bottom of the base is the witnes mark for the barrel as well,
if you flip up the battle sight, and look down the sight picture, see if the sights are straight, or cantered off...
if they are staight, then your in bus, if not,,you still have isssue.s