Never say Never!

The link to the slideshow below is of a rifle I recently added to my collection. I bought it sight unseen from a reputable source, through a friend. It was mis-identified as a 1941 Maltby Sniper rifle but when it was delivered I knew it wasn't a Maltby, but a Fazakerley rifle.

Fazakerley rifles are not believed to have been converted to the No.4 Mark 1(T)
configuration. I have sent numerous pictures to advanced collectors to ask their opinions and while there are some questions, and some are skeptical, most believe that this is a genuine piece and hence the title -"Never say Never"

The known recent history on this rifle is limited. It was purchased in Georgia, at a gunshow over 5 years ago and had the cheekpiece missing but the holes in the butt stock for mounting it. A genuine cheekpiece was added by the previous owner. All I have done with it is use white highlighting to bring out the markings.

I believe its a genuine piece and am showing it now for your enjoyment and to complement the recent threads of 1941 sniper rifles by Paul Breakey.


---> Click HERE for slide show <---

Go to the site directly

Amatikulu,
A very interesting rifle. Enfield sent a lot of parts to Faz when they moved over to making other stuff at the same time as BSA Maltby & Faz started production in 1941. I once had an early Faz rifle that was assembled on a linished Trials rifle action, so the fact that yours has numerous Enfield marked bits is quite plausible. The pads are also of the early variety, & subtle differences in the 'lie' of the 4BA screws are typical of early production. 1941 mfr BSA'a Savage's & Maltby's are the same.....
The facing off of the screws on the bolt guideway looks a little rough, but it is so difficult to be precise over these things, especially on looking '2nd hand' (via photo's, albeit they are good). Are there any barrel indexing marks?
ATB

Nice rifle, hope you played the lottery today too!

Roger,

I'd have to take the stock off again to confirm (and I will when I get back from a trip I'm about to leave on) but my recolection is that there was a barrel indexing mark at 6 O'Clock.

Amatikulu, is there any evidence as to who converted; H&H or EFD?

ATB

Roger.

A lot of this thread seems to have disappeared.................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

A lot of this thread seems to have disappeared.................

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Hi Peter .. :)

Yes, here's the explanation posted in a recent general announcement. Sorry about that ... :o

Announcements in Forum : The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum (Click Here)

Thanks ... :thup:

Regards,
Badger

Roger,

I don't know for sure. The front pad, top surface has a very indistinct mark that "might" be an Enfield inspectors mark but I can't say for certain.

The rifle was made around November 1941 (based on Skennerton's Book), which was a bit early to be left laying around for the start of the Holland and Holland conversions - I think they started in late 1942 but will have to check my references.

The scope number (521) corresponds with the earliest scopes in Peter Laidler's book on the no.32. The comment on these is that they were prototypes.

The condition of the rifle suggests that it hasn't been refinished or seen an FTR but had very light use - probably never issued to front line service unless it sat in a transit box for most of the war.

The rifle serial number corresponds with the 1051'st rifle made by Fazakerley - a really early rifle.

It never ceases to amaze me how this and other vintage rifles have survived to this day essentially unaltered from new. And how many more are still out there waiting to be discovered.

We all live in hope.

rhodders.

Amatikulu,
Thanks. Sorry for the tardy reply but have been away for the weekend. This is an interesting one.......I wouldn't assume that the rifle couldn't have been set up by H&H (although you could well be right in your view that it may have been converted by EFD): I say this only because I have very early Maltby & BSA rifles (1941 dated & complete with waisted foresight protectors etc.) that are definitely H&H conversions, & know of other collectors that have similar rifles.
Ah well, I shall have to keep looking to see if anything like yours turns up this side of the pond!
ATB.

I can only add that H&H may have used a smaller set of stamps for their S51 marking in the earliest days. I have a very well used butt here stamped "DP" which has the following rather unique characteristics:

1. Beech like post war Mk2 stocks
2. Recessed for but marking disc, which was fitted at one point from the screw thread marks in the hole. The wear around the hole makes it obvious that the disc was removed long before this left service however.
3. Two scope SNs stamped in the wrist, one a 3--- number the other a 5--- number.
4. Below those numbers is a mark I can't ID that looks like a large zero with a smaller 'o' or similar (C, G?) inside it. This is a very faded and worn over mark, contemporaneous with the scope SNs from it's appearance.
5. No holes for cheekrest screws.
6. Very faint smaller than usual "S51" stamped in the usual place. Not as deeply struck as usual ones.
7. No maker's codes present, possibly worn or scraped away in refinishing during overhaul. There are what I consider scraper marks on the butt.
8. No rifle SN on the tongue of the butt.