Here's a No1Mk3 I've never seen before

Ok guys, I thought at first glance this was a .410 conversion - the bore has no rifling left whatsoever. Then I see "Cal. 7.7" on the butt socket? I know that 7.7mm is .303" inch, but...

Then the star symbol, and the strange serial number...

Help! :)

Lou
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cture059-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cture060-1.jpg

Very interesting.

Indonesian star, maybe?

It looks like Arabic in the star. Who in the Arab world had Enfield tooling? Pakistan?

And no Knox

There appears to be the remains of a 1917 date below the "1955" of the butt socket.

"Indonesian star, maybe?"

Indonesian star, yes.
See page 588 of "The Lee Enfield".
-----krinko

I'll look when I get home! Never seen one for real.

Any more pictures? It looks like its been in Indonesia "outside" since 1955, but that's fine w/ me.

ETA I gotta keep all my lore in me pea brain when using the internet, because its not where my references are!

So... Someone would have bought tooling from a closing factory, and resumed production?

Well, the BSA plant was still in production of No 4Mk1's in Pakistan, the Fazarerley plant was still up and humming with Mk II's in 1955 in the UK, so who would that be? I've not heard nor read of other plants being sold. An Ishapore plant, perhaps?

I think there are references to the Indonesians themselves carrying out a big FTR of Enfields and other rifles.

BSA would still have been carrying out private SMLE refurb contracts in 1955, so thats a likely source of a new knox-less barrel. From the photo, the finish actually is reminiscent of Lithgow production - again the timescale and geographical proximity would fit.

We had a lot of captured Indonesian 'Browning' pistols, all marked PINDAD but they lookse suspiciously like our old No2's of all marks with a few Belgian types thrown in for good measure.

The intelligence bods came and looked at them, came and spoke to us, too soil samples from them and whatever else they sem to do and came back that they were simply our bog standard Brownings that we'd supplied to 'a one time friendly middle eastern nation' who then turned them over to their Muslim mates in Indonesia. But in order to abide by the terms of the original 'gift' had insisted that the markings be machined off. So they did and simply rolled their own markings on them.

I had one for many years that I swopped off a Gurkha Armourer. It was all tarted up as a PINDAD but was really an old Chinese No2Mk1*

Thanks Peter et al.

So, what I get is that this rifle may have been at some point "de-marked" and then "remarked" in Indonesia? Then somehow it found its way to the province of Quebec...?

And, still curious about the caliber, "7.7"...

Well well, how much I learn these days.

Thanks to a certain Mr R. (very generous knowledgeable Canadian fellow), I was reminded (read: I just learned) that the bore could be smooth, just like the indian .410 conversions.

If I ever wanted to test that rifle (which I'm nowhere near from doing), I wonder what I would reload to come up with a round that would fit the "7.7" description.

I pushed a brush through the barrel, so it became more obvious that it was supposed to be sort of smooth.

But "smooth" isn't what I would use to describe the poor bore which saw better days. Crusty might be a better term!

Lou

Hey Lou, found one of these in edmonton yesterday. Decent shape with OK rifling. Wasn't sure what it was. Skennerton page 588 shows these markings. Says they are Indonesian refurbs. were you able to find out more info about them?

vern.

It looks like they may have got parts from India , unless another country was turning out fore woods with a #4 type back strap.:dunno:

Thanks vern. Nope, still pretty much where I was a few weeks ago with that rifle. What puzzles me is that the barrel looks suspiciously too smooth. I've seen shot-out barrels, and typically there's a way to see remnants, fossils of rifling. This one, not a sign of rifling. I'm therefore still hesitant to dewat it, which was my original reason for getting the rifle; to use it as a teaching tool in a school where my wife teaches. (With the police's blessing and everything in order of course).

Lou

I'm no expert, but the only thing I could think of is a rifle that would have been re-worked to use surplus Japanese 7.7 ammo which I imagine would have been common in Asia.

Just a guess, but might not the 7.7 mean 7.7x56mmR the metric designation of the .303?
The Finnish and the Japanese used the .303 in aircraft machineguns in WWII and both called it a 7.7

It's indonesian, but not sure about the smooth bore? Could be a musket conversion ala India .410's?