Still another Standard Products

Printable View

12-13-2009, 11:59 AM
dnikkor

Still another Standard Products

I kinda hate to start a new thread on a similar subject, but my earlier posted question wasn't getting any bites.

I don't know why Standard Products carbines are attracted to me. No sooner than I snooze & loose a real nice one, I run across another one with many if not all early features.....correct flip sight, Type 1 band, push safety AND stock with no rebuild mark. There is a ghost of a cartouche on the right and a strong SH-B in the slingwell. I didn't get a chance to tear into it today, but I will tomorrow. This could really be one of those proverbial "duffle-bag carbines".

The downside? Lots of finish wear. Stock may have been partially sanded and varnished. The barely readable 12/43 dated Underwood barrel has a MW of 2, which ain't bad. Basically this is a rack grade SP, most likely with all the original correct parts and no providence to prove its heritage, and it sure has a patina that is very long in the making. Asking $900, will sell for $700.

This might be a no-brainer to everybody here, but $700 is not a small sum of money this time of the year following a major car repair and the purchase of a Bavarian Rural Police w/flip.

Anybody see any reason (other than that pesky money thing) I shouldn't jump on this like dirty on a hog?

Update, on my way to pick it up. Once I get the chance to photograph it, I'll put them up.
12-13-2009, 09:12 PM
dnikkor

Carbine harvested, info rundown below, photos hopefully tomorrow:

Standard Products, serial #21184xx, Dec. '43?
Barrel-Underwood dated 12/43, preferred by SP, MW-2
Front sight-marked "N" for SP
Barrel band-Type 1 unmarked, correct. Swivel is marked "UI"....not sure if swivel is correct...anybody know?
Rear sight-Type A flip, unmarked, correct
Op rod-Type A, variation 4, SP marked "S" in a circle, numbers 8, 4 stamped on side
Bolt-flat marked "S-29" for SP, no idea on guts
Trigger housing-SP, Type A, variation 3 brazed, stamped "ST" (WB says that they didn't use these until Jan. 15, 1944...others here and on CMP forum say they used them earlier...maybe this one is evidence to that supposition?)
Hammer-Type A, variation 1 dogleg marked "SW", correct
Sear-"SW" marked, correct
Mag catch-Type A, variation 2 stamped "SW", correct
Trigger-have to strip further to tell for sure
Safety-Type A, unmarked, correct
Stock-Type A, variation 2 with oval aperture. Ghost of a cartouche on right, strong S-HB stamped in sling well.
NO REBUILD STAMP
Recoil plate-marked "Standard Products", upside down, haven't removed it yet to see what type.
Butt Plate-SP, marked"S-S3", little rusty
Handguard-four rivet replacement

I bought it at a Kansas City gunshow Sunday. Seller said he bought it from an older guy (not WWII age) who said he "had it for quite awhile." So much for any providence. It shows quite a bit of wear on the finish, some grime and a patina that is consistent throughout.

This carbine has not been put together. I think I really might have one of those honest-to-gawd duffel bag carbines!
:cheers:
12-14-2009, 06:35 PM
dnikkor

Here are some quick pics. I'll tear apart & photograph the guts when time allows.

http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/s...view=slideshow
12-15-2009, 10:12 AM
shadycon

Looks like a rare find. I would have used my beer money to buy it. At least a years worth!! Congrat's.
12-15-2009, 10:14 AM
dnikkor

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadycon

Looks like a rare find. I would have used my beer money to buy it. At least a years worth!! Congrat's.

Thanks. This is one I really couldn't afford right now, but then again I couldn't afford not to. :beerchug:
12-15-2009, 02:47 PM
Brasidas

Damn... some people have all the luck. Great find!

Nice to know its now in a good home and will be appreciated.
12-15-2009, 11:51 PM
Maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnikkor

Thanks. This is one I really couldn't afford right now, but then again I couldn't afford not to. :beerchug:

You did very well, that carbine can be parted out for well more than you paid, not that you'd want to! If it's got lots of finish wear and it's all-original it could likely mean it saw some extended WWII combat service. Minty old original USGI rifles are a beauty to behold in their own right but I for one love the examples that fought the good fight and look it.
I'd just consider it an early Christmas present to #1 :super:
Lucky dawg!!
12-16-2009, 03:50 PM
dnikkor

Now I'm torn between leaving it exactly as is or switching out the four rivet handguard to a two rivet S-HB I have and also switching the rather rusty SP butt plate with another SP plate I have that still shows honest wear. Of course I would keep any replaced parts to put it exactly as was. Wondering if I should even give the stock a little BLO.
12-16-2009, 08:09 PM
Maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnikkor

Now I'm torn between leaving it exactly as is or switching out the four rivet handguard to a two rivet S-HB I have and also switching the rather rusty SP butt plate with another SP plate I have that still shows honest wear. Of course I would keep any replaced parts to put it exactly as was. Wondering if I should even give the stock a little BLO.

I'd say yes to all the above, especially the part about keeping the 4 rivet handguard & rusty buttplate. And any good GI would rub a little BLO on the stock, no harm, no foul!
12-16-2009, 11:11 PM
Curt

I am starting to see a little BLO-BLO/Turp is a must have to keep stocks from cracking and drying out
12-17-2009, 11:59 AM
painter777

dnikkor,
I'm glad you were able to grab it. For some reason I can't see the pics, but you've described it very well. Now that you have one.......it could be years before you run across another one.
If it were mine, I'd be swapping out the 4 rivet for the 2 and putting the nicer buttplate on it.
Look for any letters stamped under the buttplate.
Couple questions about it,
There is NO S marking on the rear sites left base?
If so...I wonder if that could have been one of the very early types reportedly used by Winchester, passed on to Stan Pro?
Remember Crescent Manufacturing Co made flips found on Stan Pro with a tiny s on the left base and SC on the bottom.
Wonder if it's marked with the SC but forgot the tiny s?
Is the safety smooth faced?
Type 1 or 2?

I just looked thru a picture album of a friends original Stan Pro # 2,115,xxx that has a SQ S marked flip sight. Has the Brazed trigger housing with Underwood barrel dated 1-44.
I've noticed on many of the reported original Stan Pro's in this range the use of the N marked frt sight. Most show that the frt sights retention key is staked on the rear with 2 punch marks. Some show 2 dimples on the barrel also. As though the tool they used to stake each side of the key caught the top of the barrel also. Just something else you can look for.
I can't find anything about the UI marked swivel, but sure wouldn't rule it's possible use out.

I can't state how important it is to keep these old growth walnut stocks well oiled. Inside and out, including under the buttplate.

Here's a picture of a S-HB stock's CC that might have remained intact had it been loved with some oil from time to time.

Looking forward to seeing your pics.

Congrats,
Charlie

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04752-1.jpg
12-17-2009, 01:20 PM
dnikkor

Hi Painter777, thanks for your questions & observations.
I was surprised that the rear sight wasn't marked "S" too. I haven't heard about the Winchester connection before though there might be traces of the small "s" you mentioned, possibly obscured by the marks made while sighting in. Sure not going to take it off to check for the "SC".
The safety is smooth, so Type A either variation 2 or 3, won't know until I have the skills to completely dismantle the trigger grouping. I'm not practicing on this one.
My "N" marked front sight does have the staking you mentioned but no dimples on the barrel, I didn't notice the staking until you pointed it out. Thanks again.
Interesting that your friend's SP has the same brazed trigger housing as mine...contrary to what WB says. He has an earlier serial number but a later Underwood barrel than mine. Wonder if one is a replacement or if mine could have been built earlier even though the serial number is later by 3,000.
The "UI" swivel is a mystery to me. Possible war time replacement if not correct?
I took the butt plate off...possibly the first time that has been done since it was manufactured....and did not find any stamping. It has the correct S-S5 stamp on the top.
Will do on the BLO. Great advice.
Please try the photos again. I switched it yesterday to the slide show mode.
Also, you can see it and its cousins on the CMP site here:
http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3949
Thanks again for your comments and help. I'm really being slammed hard right now on bills, but I knew that I would have a hell of a hard time finding an unmessed with correct carbine again. :beerchug:
12-17-2009, 06:43 PM
shadycon

I too have a SP # 22245xx with the T-4 brazed trigger housing. I think the T-4 t.h. is quite common on SP's
12-18-2009, 02:26 PM
dnikkor

What do you recommend to gently clean the grunge off the carbine stock before I bestow the BLO?
12-18-2009, 09:31 PM
painter777

If really black and grimey I like using the spray foam engine degreaser named GUNK. Pull the metal...Spray the foam on and let sit for about 5 minutes...then lightly scrub with a soft bristle brush. A quick rinse with warm water and towel dry. Repeat if needed.
All depends on how clean you want it. But getting the old grease and dirt off will improve how well the new oil will penetrate.

Charlie-painter777
12-18-2009, 10:22 PM
dnikkor

It's really not too greasy. Most of the grime seems to be where the gun was handled, forearm, pistol grip. The wood surface is real smooth, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't sealed with anything. I'd rather start out a little easy on the wood. Thanks.
12-18-2009, 11:16 PM
Mike D

A little warm water and dawn worked good for me. I used 00 steel wool to gently wipe it. Wanted to use 0000 but at the time I couldn't find it. Let it dry and put some BLO on it. Turned out nice.
12-23-2009, 03:33 PM
dnikkor

I finally photographed the guts to my Standard Products "duffelbag" carbine. After photographing, I cleaned the parts (had a hell of a time learning how to re-install the hammer plunger & spring) and washed the stock with Dawn. It cleaned off a bunch of gunk and I am going to rub in a dose of 1/3 BLO, 1/3 turpentine, 1/3 bees wax. Will post more pics once I am happy with the stock.

I discovered a crack behind the recoil plate that I didn't see in the dark gun show. I will eventually fix this, but not too worried since I have no plans on shooting this nearly correct carbine.

Any insights welcomed. :beerchug:

http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/s...view=slideshow
12-23-2009, 03:43 PM
Bill Hollinger

Very nice dnikkor. Did you replace the barrel band screw?
12-23-2009, 04:18 PM
dnikkor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hollinger

Very nice dnikkor. Did you replace the barrel band screw?

Thanks Bill. The screw & swivel are as received. I think the swivel might be a period replacement. Is the screw wrong?

The only replacing I'm going to do is to mount a non-rusty SP butt plate I was saving for my other SP and replace the unmarked four rivet handguard with a S-HB two rivet I have. The finish should match pretty well. I've rubbed two coats of my mix into the stock & handguard so far and it is looking nice. I can even see the ghost of the cartouche better, but not sure it will photograph.
12-23-2009, 04:22 PM
Bill Hollinger

No, the screw looks right but it also looks to be in much better condition than the swivel. It all looks good to me.
12-23-2009, 04:33 PM
JBS

Respectfully suggest you do not BLO, turpentine, or bees wax the stock until you repair the crack. The crack will wick these fluids making it more difficult for glue or cement to bite into the wood.
12-23-2009, 04:38 PM
dnikkor

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBS

Respectfully suggest you do not BLO, turpentine, or bees wax the stock until you repair the crack. The crack will wick these fluids making it more difficult for glue or cement to bite into the wood.

Oops. I was wondering about that and should have checked before jumping. I guess I will wait awhile before attempting to repair the crack since it is too late now. :runaway:
12-23-2009, 04:55 PM
JBS

Sorry I did not see your post sooner friend. When it comes time to make the patch try to wick some Acetone into the crack for a couple days before you use your glue.
12-23-2009, 05:48 PM
dnikkor

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBS

Sorry I did not see your post sooner friend. When it comes time to make the patch try to wick some Acetone into the crack for a couple days before you use your glue.

Any suggestions for the gluing process? Thanks again, Dave :beerchug:
12-23-2009, 09:33 PM
imarangemaster

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBS

Respectfully suggest you do not BLO, turpentine, or bees wax the stock until you repair the crack. The crack will wick these fluids making it more difficult for glue or cement to bite into the wood.

I did not find the crack in my Inland CMP until I was doing the second round BLO treatments yesterday. It is 5 inches long running from mag well towards nose. I contacted CMP and they will swap it out for me.