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This, so they tell me is supposed to be IT:-
Five-seveN Tactical
I´m only allowed TWO hand guns here, but have a large number of Lugers that are legal owing to the fact that I can have any number of tops to one registered grip. So am waiting for the FN as my second choice.
Its only worthwhile if you can get the AP ammo loaded to full spec. The US loads are basically equivalent to 22 magnum w/ no hardened penetrator bullets allowed, except for M&P sales. Case life for reloading will be short, as the shoulder is blown way forwards upon firing from all weapons tried so far...
Asides from the mag capacity, I'm really not impressed w/ either the P90 or the Five seveN pistol. If the P90 was in a different caliber, it would be great, its much more ergonomic than the F2000 cheap AUG knockoff.
The pathetic terrorist who recently used a Five-seveN pistol made most of his kills on wounded personnel that didn't escape being head shot. Other reports of the round's terminal ballistics are generally not favorable. Its only real advantages are light recoil and armor penetration as compared to other handgun rounds.
Not that I pretend to be any great expert on the round: I've shot some and read more, that's it. My opinion is worth what you paid!
Yours is the first report I´ve heard of and is first hand. H&K say that they´re working on a sub calibre too but have not heard anything of that yet either.
Not too optimistic now. Think I´ll stay with my Lugers ...
Its not that these weapons are bad or anything, its just that they're quite specialized. For unexpected encounters w/ foes wearing body armor, in situations that a front line weapon isn't called for, then its OK. (!???!):p
Oh, and the pistol is just the backup to the PDW!
FN reinvented the .30 Mauser. A TT33 Tokarev will do the same. Gary
Hmmm, a P90 in .30 Mauser...Sounds right interesting.
I think the H&K round is the 4.6x30 40gr projectile at about 1900fps. Eh, whats so better about that than a 7.62x25 at around 1600-1700 fps (Czech load)!? I guess in a PDW w/ a really high cyclic rate it might be more controllable, but in a semi-auto pistol? Leave me out!Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
Lugers are great w/ good hot ammo (+P in U.S. terms) and good mags. I just don't like the safety (as a primarily left handed shooter). Thought about trying to adapt a Docter Optic sight to one, no progress yet as suitably cheap reblued mismatched Luger hasn't surfaced in front of me lately. Tactical Luger Accessory Store- Can't find it on the internet thing...:rolleyes:
I am enamored with the TT33. Screw a bunch of Czech ammo. I have found the Chinese very consistent and reliable @ 1600fps The Yugo or Chinese issue pistols work. Nobody walks out of the sight picture. Gary
Some years back (about 30) ZFs were plentiful in Germany (and cheap as chips), so these ZF Lugers were quite often to be found. Don´t see them around these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Villers, I have not yet got a pistol. But if I ever do, then a Luger is the thing. How accurate are they with a ZF fitted?
I have a couple of ZFs, but like JMoore, I haven't found a pistol that has a sensible price as a shooter, instead of an antique. And how would you rate them comparatively as shooters: ARI vs Navy vs standard? I have shot an ARI, and it whipped my arm right back over my head (OK; slight exaggeration, but that's what it felt like) so I am not sure that the extra long barrel is 100% advantageous.
It looks like the Navy version has the longest sightline (am I right?) but they are firmly in the hen's teeth category for rarity.
Patrick
Patrick, i think thats a question of wich i like better and wich i can pay. I`ve shot the Standard 08 and it was great. I also shot the ARI with the wooden stock and it was also fantastic. I never shot a NAVY :-( I think that is not so important if it is a standard or whatever, as long as it is a good shooter. From the collectors view the Navy is the better one, but the prices... uuuh! At the moment i have offers on all of them, they have all matching numbers and are in a great shape. The prices are good for the standards € 400 - €600, the ARI with all accessoires €1200 - €1600 and the Navy beginns at € 3000 !!! I can wait. And for the ammo we use H&N`s with HP38 great accuracy low recoil.
Gunner
Hi GunnerQuote:
Originally Posted by gunner
I use Hornady hollow tip with N330. Never went in for `fully numbered´ but all parts have been matched by an expert Büma. The Navy´s ok but 7.65 Luger is a bit more bother to load.
Villiers,
the Hornadys 121grs HAP are great ammo. I shoot it with 4.2grs N320. They are good. Whats your recipe? I made the experience that the old lugers like more the light loads than the hot ones. The Navy is still good but i dont understand why they are so expensive. The Ari is as good as and cheaper. And it is good for DP3
Patrick to PatrichQuote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
I can only shoot the LP (Ari) accurately with the stock. On a good day (which is NEVER during competitions), I´m ok with my Luger `special´...
Patrick
Hey,hey,hey, Villiers is this yours?
I´ve got three different loads ... 4.5 to 5.1 of N330. Measured the speed and varied the load to approximate the original. Think you can shoot DP3 with all three Lugers (08, 04 and LP) ... with the (original) stock ... which is too near the sights for my eyes. Need a longer stock (which is not permitted).Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner
Yep. the stock is a problem. And as you stated it is not allowed to use a longer. We made a longer one it is about 4cm longer looks like the original and works great but i never used it at a competition. Thats not fair.
Oui! (Nothing is impossible until you´ve tried it!)Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner
Patrick
PS
... and this is my tiniest ... (with a safety release catch). `Tis astonishingly accurate ... but a bit of a flame thrower.
The baby Luger, cool !!! Are there pics without the holster? Good saying from where do you have it ;-))
Wait, you've lost me- What's an "ARI" Luger? Or "LP"?
JM The Ari (Artillery) Luger IS the LP (Lange Pistole) 08. The name `Luger´ ist practically unknown here in Germany and the pistol is only known by its year of introduction to the German Armed Forces (08).Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Gunner, the `Mini´is a bit of a tart´s handbag. The strawed parts are (in the very best taste) ..... gold plated! :bow:
Villers is correct. The name "Luger" is not the usual term in Gemany. People just refer to the "08" (standard) "ARI 08" (long-barrelled artillery) and "04" pistols. If buying anything, be very careful to specify exactly what you are getting. There are books on the Luger, but for a beginner, like myself, a good start is the very interesting VISIER Special No. 48 "Pistole 08". Worth getting IMHO.
Patrick
Have the Visier its really good stuff!
Gunner
Lugers at Random is the tome of which I'm familiar. Its old though!
We (local to where I live) often call the German version generically the P'08, but it'll confuse those who don't know the "lingo".
Lugers are an very exciting theme. You can fill hours with them. Here`s a pic of my grandpa ( holding the Luger) he was playing the policeman and his comrade a gangster. It was from his time at the police "Bereitschaftspolizei Dresden" in 1936
Regards
Gunner.
Villiers, as long as it dont look like this one is there no problem.
Gunner you gotta W I C K E D looking grandpa ...
Yes, but only in the pic. Normally he was a friendly person. ( a Paratrooper too )
Hi Villiers,
found another "good looking" Luger. And was a bit to late on a ARI :banghead:
Regards
Gunner
Gunner, don´t like that much engraving on a gun. Bit like the tattooed lady in a circus.
Villiers, that was a bit of sarcastic. I dont like it too. Do you read the Visier ? In one of their magazines they had also a bad looking SIG X-Five.
Yes ... I tried not to look. There are some very fine forgeries being made over in the US of GL presentation Lugers with some quite nice engraving. They might even become collectors´ items.:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner