No 4 Sniper Identification

Hi

Happy New Year and good health :cheers: to you all from France.

Can any one help me with this......... Please.

I am sure some of you will have seen these pics from one of my other posts.
I know the rifle is NOT an english made No4T.

What I understand is that it was an Israeli made one, post WW11 manufacture 4T from surplus rifles that they acquired after the setting up of the state of Isreal. The pads are the give away the front pad has staggered screw holes and the rear pad has its screws reversed and the type of screw being a cheese head. IT does have a "T" stamped between the pads. But no other marks I can find. It seems logical for Israel to mark their rifles thus to indicate a sniper, and as they used many brit enfields, and why not stay with a recognized marking system.

I have set up a no 32 mk 11 scope on the rifle with an original no 32 Canadian mount, it lines up perfectly.
It shoots very very well. and is one of the best rifles I have ever shot.
Trigger pull is 1.5kilo and is very direct and no slack to take up.
A pull I like and would try to setup for myself for target shooting.

David

I'm suprised that the Israelis reversed the up/down placement of the rear pad screws because it was done like that for a reason. So that the front screw would clear the hardened area of the left side locking lug recess. This har area was a feature allowed as a 'relaxation in standards' to H&H during the process.

Thanks for the comment Peter.
Do you or Roger or anyone else have any information on these Israeli sniper rifles?
How to correctly recognize them, etc.
and what other scopes they used other then the no 32.
or do you know where to get the information.

in anticipation David

:bow:

I had hopped the there would have been more posts the just Peters, which is interesting.

I would like to know if this Israeli rifle is correct, as far as any one can tell.
I would love to hear what people think about this.
I would like especially to hear what Rodger, Peter or any other expert has to say.
And if any one knows where I can get more information.

again I wait in anticipation.

I have only seen a few. Israeli No4T's have a star of David on the breeching up ring.

I am sure that you realise that there is also an Israeli version of the No32 telescope too. You can't get into the turret area of their scopes. If I remember correctly, the brackets were made of cast bronze(?).

If I was you Read, I'd try and acquire a correct Israeli bracket and scope then sell the No32 and Canadian bracket to recoup your costs.

You can be rest assured that thur Israeli No4T has, er ......, how do we say this in polite company...... Ah, yes..... 'earned it's keep'

Thanks foe the comment Peter.
I cannot see a star of David, but I am not sure where the breaching up ring is.
Is it the receiver ring?
Is it the on top of the chamber between the bolt and the wood?

Where could I find or start the search for the Israeli 32 scope and mount?

I will keep the my 32 mk 11 and Canadian mount and original pads as I spoke to Fultons a few weeks ago asking about scopes for sale, and they said they had a number of 4 Ts without scopes so would not sell a scope on its own.
I plan to buy a real 4 T later this year.

I am shooting in a competition in April, and the Enfield is the rifle I wish to use as the mauser M48 is not yet finished, namely I have to make the cases in 8x60 and work out a load. I only have rifles in civilian / hunting calibers as I live in France, such as 8X64, 303 sporting, 6.5X57R another one for the Enfields, and 30X284 etc.
I was the departmental champ a couple of years ago setting a new record and gained an entry into the champion of France, did not take my place as it was a 8 hr drive and a long weekend and I needed to work, twins are not cheap to keep... LOL just so much fun.....(they don't touch my rifles now as they have found that they hurt their feet when they drop them.) Next year I will have to choose which rifle to use and that wont be easy as I will have a real No 4 T by then I hope, and my copy of a long branch with a Lyman Alaskan scope should be finished in the next few months I only have to get the reducing rings for the scope made by Fultons, and I am also planning to get an AI AW as well.

David

To add to the "The Israeli's copied the Brits" story, the Israeli manufactured scope cans are close but not exact copies of the British and the labelling is in Hebrew but translates as a direct copy of the British labels.

I have posted in the past, pictures of my Israeli scopes and rifle. I agree that Israeli rifles will have the star of David and other Israeli markings.

What are these markings and where are they?

and do you have any pics?

David

Presumably as the Israelis set the pads back a quarter inch or so, they didn't need to worry about the hardened areas?

read6737, just out of curiousity what's the S/N of your No. 32 Mk II scope? Folk are alway hoping for a reunion...

It is a 1943 No 8322 early mk 11 with rear eye shield

David,
Sorry for the late foray, but I can't add a great deal. Many about 20 years ago a friend of mine liberated about 8-10 of these barrelled actions from the tunnel in Parker Hale's cellars. I could have had the lot for a pittance but I turned my nose up at them as they weren't 'proper' No4 (T)'s!! How times change......I did buy one as I had one of the Israeli hybrid No32 type scopes & wanted to put the whole together just to move it on. I restocked it in brand new beech & put it through Weller & Dufty's, only for it to bebought very reasonably by an old pal in NZ. Can't remember much about most of the hebrew markings other than the Star of David, except that they were on the receiver ring (I think). I used an Israeli rear pad as part of a jig for many years in the final machining of my No32 brackets.

By the way, whereabouts are you in the Hexagon? I have a little place on the borders of 62 & 80 (ideal if you're into 1914-1918), but I can't persuade her indoors to up sticks & move out there for good, as much as I'd like to...

ATB

thank you Roger for the reply.

Do you know of any one with an Israeli made scope and mount that are for sale?

I live in 87, near Bellac.

I do get up to your area Abbeville and a bit further north,
I go hunting for WW11 plane crashes and then did them up with a group of friends.

I have lived here 7 years now.
I trained and qualified as an electrician here with the AFPPA.
I help run my local shooting club, and have trained and qualified to teach the use of fire arms and to judge competitions.
I was also regional champ with my K98 in 8X64 at 200 meters open sights and set a new record in 2006.

This year I will use the No4 with my 32 scope.

David

We would like a .303" Browning aircraft wing gun if you have one. Condition pretty well immaterial as I'd like to show it next to a live one. What have you?

David,
Thx. Your best bet re the Israeli scope is that someone may see these postings & have one to spare. I'll certainly ask one or two contacts though, just in case......

I'm mid-way between Albert & Bapaume & about 1km from High Wood. Couldn't be much better really for a WW1 anorak! Martin Pegler (another Enfield anorak) lives about 4-5km from me, which is handy!

ATB



ATB